Pipe root?

[Kent]

Agree totally. The big shortage is in the multi skilled. I find it amazing what so called skilled guys can't do outside a very specific task
Besides limiting jobs available it has to seriously limit promotion ( perhaps this is a result of job protection from those slightly higher up?)

 

[WorkshopChris]

i was talking to somebody the other day and apparently the agency he was using could get him as many skilled Tig welder as he wanted but they didn't have any one on the books who could gas cut and mma.

Most young lads are doing tig at college as they are told that is where the money is. And in a way it might be but its supply and demand, more welders than bits to tig up.

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

I agree we have a young lad who's due to come out of his time in May/June and his year all want to be Tig welders. I was the same I worked for a company that only did jigged Mig work it nearly sent me mad, I purposefully looked to become a Tig welder but I've neglected stick and mig due to work only using Tig for everything.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Photo's can alter the way things look (I have the opposite problem, beautiful welds appear poor!) but it's clear that you're not doing bad.

To say that it's not been touched with a grinder I wouldn't say the restarts are terrible. I think I see some fair undercut which might be a little too much power, or it could be the photo. I also think I see some slag inclusion in a photo, though I can't see in great detail.

Once the new rods arrive you should find it a good bit easier, at the moment it's hard to progress because any faults could easily be the rods not you, so that needs ruling out. But I'd say you're doing fine, a little more practice and I'd suggest feathering the restarts just to keep it smoother and then show us what's happening.

 

[Rrunnach]

Be good if you cut pipe close to welded joint after completion, so we (and you) and get a good look at root pene.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Be good if you cut pipe close to welded joint after completion, so we (and you) and get a good look at root pene.

I understand he's currently using TIG to root with as that's where his skills are, it's the fill and cap that's being done with stick at the moment. I presume he'll move to rooting with stick once he's had more practice.

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Cheers Bill once the new rods arrive I'll get some more pictures up.
I've been tig rooting but I'll get a root pic up for you in the next lot.
Also if I were to try stick root I understand I can't use 6010 with my inverter what would you guys recommend? Also what root gap and landing edge?

Cheers guys

 

[HughF]

6011 (easb nu5) Have you got a copy of Hoobasar Rampaul's book? if not, why not...?

 

[HughF]

many people like ESAB 6010 for rooting pipe, i believe the rods are called Nu5 or something like that. Its a fast-freezing cellulosic rod so probably wouldnt be able to run it on a standard inverter or transformer set as iirc they need an OCV of 60+ volts

Nu5 are 6011, and will run on lower OCV machines and inverters...

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

6011 (easb nu5) Have you got a copy of Hoobasar Rampaul's book? if not, why not...?

No I don't have a copy of pipe welding procedures. I don't really have an answer for why I dont, I think it's something I will invest in soon but I've never felt the need to before.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'll second the Nu5 (6011) rods for use on a non-cellulose capable inverter. You can get cheap Super6 ones, but as with their other flavors you should stay well clear for this kind of thing!

As to the root prep this is something which you can expect to alter as you find what does or doesn't work for you, but a good starting point would be a 2mm land and about the same gap, or perhaps a 2.5mm gap (which has the advantage of allowing you to use a common rod to gauge it ).

Be warned though, moving onto cellulose rods is quite a step away from rutiles an lohi's. Not that they're hard, but different.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Hugh, just how good is Pipe welding procedures? I consider myself a reasonably capable welder though not particularly experienced on pipe (or at least, not the kind of pipe welding we typically think about on here) but keep seeing it talked about, is there a great deal to learn from it? I'm becoming quite curious, though not enough to part with money without knowing how useful it is!

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

Also what I did mean to ask with stick welding the root, does anyone know of using a backing plate on the job? I've seen a couple of videos and had a discussion once or twice with my gaffer about ithe when I was a lad, I'm just curious if this technique get used on the job? I assume it makes root pass easier.

 

[Liquid Metal]

Not sure youd use a backing plate in a 5 or 6g pipe butt??
As mentioned abouve about a 2mm land and 2.5 mm gap.. i have found that set up works brilliantly in my experience with a rutile or low hy rod, perhaps with a slightly bigger gap, usually use a 3.2mm tig filler bent into a v to set the gap (this is on 6"sch 80 pipe though) and root with a 2.4 rod.

When ive rooted pipe with cellulosic the butts have been set up with literally 1-1.5 mm of a landing edge and the gap set with a power hacksaw blade. Then 90 amps and push the rod through so the arcs on the inside of the pipe and just use a steady travel speed rather than whipping the rod back and forth.
Im not overly experienced in this by a long shot, this was one shown to me by a few old guys ive worked with and ive picked up from them. Works well once you get the amps vs arcforce vs speed thing balanced out

 

[rory1]

ive removed low pressure salt water Fire pump pipe work on drilling rigs that had backing rings on the inside of the joints. The Americans call them chill rings - they are a ring with little stubs on that you use to set your root gap.

Makes fit up a bit quicker than normal but creates a corrosion starter between the chill ring and pipe in some applications

 

[Scott_welderbeast]

So chill rings doesn't get used that often then? Also back to my first question because most of my experience is workshop based would you find tig root on site in most situations and when would stick root come in to play? Or is it dependant on pipe material and service use?

Example my only site experience on pipe was inconel 625 repairing pipes going to headers and this was full tig welded. I understand a lot comes down to weld procedure spec but has anyone noticed a pattern/frequency when stick root is used over tig root?

Again sorry for all the questions

 

[Liquid Metal]

ive removed low pressure salt water Fire pump pipe work on drilling rigs that had backing rings on the inside of the joints. The Americans call them chill rings - they are a ring with little stubs on that you use to set your root gap.

Makes fit up a bit quicker than normal but creates a corrosion starter between the chill ring and pipe in some applications

Oh right, yes can see why might be corrosion problems in some applications. Have used a couple of consumable inserts a while ago which acted as the filler for the root, i guess its the same principle give or take a bit lol. I was thinking backing bars as in a 20x6mm backing strap for example on a plate butt.

As far as when Tig or stick roots come into play, or tig vs stick fill are concerned it wouldnt strictly be a site vs workshop thing. I guess materials, service pressures etc play a part in all that amongst many other factors? Not really sure about all of the technical side of things like that, Although can say i dont think id fancy filling out an 8 or 10 inch sch80 or 120 pipe with tig lol