- Thread starter Richiew
- Start date
Ok. Bit of advice taken onboard from yesterday. I watched a few videos and tried to do a bit of research on correct amps for brazing. Even Jody is a bit backward coming forward with settings, saying things like "Setting the power till it flows" rather than giving exact amperages. This Old Tony was a bit more forthcoming but quickly delved into the realms of pulse which I am still trying to avoid today. I decided to settle on 85 amps on 3mm steel but first wanted to compare copper cable using the same settings (70 amps) as before for a bit of a direct comparison.
Ta da! , Screwfix's finest twin and earth in 1mm squared.
Steel Wool as per Paul, I've dug the acetone out too. It is getting the full treatment. I've even tried my best, wire brushing the underside of the coupons to get rid of some of the surface rust. Flap disc on the other surfaces that I can get to as before.
The wipe down after the wool shows there's still a lot of crap about.
A quick wind up with the drill, other end clamped up in the vice. I wasn't sure how tight to wind the wire so left it like this. The copper is soft unlike steel so doesn't spring apart when you remove it from either the vice or drill jaws. It behaves itself.
Another wipe down after shows this was still on the wire.
Fresh clean glove too. I might as well go completely over the top. There's not much point in cleaning wire if you have dirty hands I suppose.
Welds Brazes go in. I remembered to braze from the outside edge towards the middle today so there's a bit of personal improvement. The wire brazes fairly nicely, there's no silicon so it doesn't flow as well but this makes it easy to make a comfortable, superficial braze as the weld pool stays where it is. It is mostly on the top though which isn't what we really want. I didn't leave much of a gap on this firstset up.
Wire brushed.
Not much flow through to the back.
Ta da! , Screwfix's finest twin and earth in 1mm squared.
Steel Wool as per Paul, I've dug the acetone out too. It is getting the full treatment. I've even tried my best, wire brushing the underside of the coupons to get rid of some of the surface rust. Flap disc on the other surfaces that I can get to as before.
The wipe down after the wool shows there's still a lot of crap about.
A quick wind up with the drill, other end clamped up in the vice. I wasn't sure how tight to wind the wire so left it like this. The copper is soft unlike steel so doesn't spring apart when you remove it from either the vice or drill jaws. It behaves itself.
Another wipe down after shows this was still on the wire.
Fresh clean glove too. I might as well go completely over the top. There's not much point in cleaning wire if you have dirty hands I suppose.
Wire brushed.
Not much flow through to the back.
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Hammer test. This is the first failure. It was the shoddiest braze of the three on the work piece by far. Not much penetration and the braze surface looks pitted. I wouldn't blame the wire as much as the operator. The braze on the other side held up fine. I suppose I could make any joint break, it is just how we design the joints or the destructive test.
Other side held up fine.
If your work piece experiences these forces you have plenty of other things to worry about than just your brazing.
Second go. 1.6mm gap this time.
Braze after wire brushing.
Still not flowing through the gap to the rear as well as yesterday.
Set up in the vice again.
Survives the bashing in the vice this time. I guess the gap helps or maybe the welding has improved a bit with practice. Not bad at all for a bit of scrap wire.
Other end
Number of times "weld" or related terms have been deleted from this post, 2.
Other side held up fine.
If your work piece experiences these forces you have plenty of other things to worry about than just your brazing.
Second go. 1.6mm gap this time.
Braze after wire brushing.
Still not flowing through the gap to the rear as well as yesterday.
Set up in the vice again.
Survives the bashing in the vice this time. I guess the gap helps or maybe the welding has improved a bit with practice. Not bad at all for a bit of scrap wire.
Other end
Number of times "weld" or related terms have been deleted from this post, 2.
Few more gratuitous shots of abused brazements.
Damage again to the soft copper caused by the work piece moving in the vice jaws. The braze is too cold and too proud of the steel which doesn't help.
Another close up of the failed braze . The pitted surface is quite clear.
Damage again to the soft copper caused by the work piece moving in the vice jaws. The braze is too cold and too proud of the steel which doesn't help.
Another close up of the failed braze . The pitted surface is quite clear.
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Final bit today I promise. Back to proper brazing wire and now using 85 amps as @premmington advised me that I was brazing too cold.
Rod cleaned with Acetone, not as dirty as some wires I have.
Proper gap. Note the 1.6mm spacer wire. This is prior to wire brushing and the braze is noticably cleaner than before. The extra heat seems to be having a postive effect. The braze is much flatter too.
Sides welded towards the middle. Again cleaner looking.
Wire brushed.
The reverse shows good flow to the back on the first braze but the two sides aren't half as good. I would put that down to operator technique. I got all three runs out of one rod and on the final side I was rushing to finish before I ran out of rod. Otherwise I might have fed a bit more rod into it. Also I felt the need to push on faster on the sides as there is less material to soak up the heat. I should have taken more time.
Survives the hammer test all the same. Yay!
To conclude: I wont be brazing any suspension components like this. It is a handy technique to have I suppose. Good for stuff in a domestic environment that doesn't experience any great forces. It is very decorative too. If Aunty Mabel comes along asking if I "could just weld this broken heirloom" I will be brazing if for sure. It is very handy for one offs where you dont get a second chance or a practice run. The original material should be untouched underneath the braze. I won't be blowing through anything. I will definately consider this first with some exhaust builds of mine in future, Should save me cooking any stainless material or making a mess of thin walled tube.
Rod cleaned with Acetone, not as dirty as some wires I have.
Proper gap. Note the 1.6mm spacer wire. This is prior to wire brushing and the braze is noticably cleaner than before. The extra heat seems to be having a postive effect. The braze is much flatter too.
Sides welded towards the middle. Again cleaner looking.
Wire brushed.
The reverse shows good flow to the back on the first braze but the two sides aren't half as good. I would put that down to operator technique. I got all three runs out of one rod and on the final side I was rushing to finish before I ran out of rod. Otherwise I might have fed a bit more rod into it. Also I felt the need to push on faster on the sides as there is less material to soak up the heat. I should have taken more time.
Survives the hammer test all the same. Yay!
To conclude: I wont be brazing any suspension components like this. It is a handy technique to have I suppose. Good for stuff in a domestic environment that doesn't experience any great forces. It is very decorative too. If Aunty Mabel comes along asking if I "could just weld this broken heirloom" I will be brazing if for sure. It is very handy for one offs where you dont get a second chance or a practice run. The original material should be untouched underneath the braze. I won't be blowing through anything. I will definately consider this first with some exhaust builds of mine in future, Should save me cooking any stainless material or making a mess of thin walled tube.
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Brad93
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- Essex, United Kingdom
gas brazing is the proper way
ghostdancing
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- italy
great report mate! if i understood you used copper electric wire in the last experiment, (instead of proper expensive brazing rod)..correct? you made that thread of wires to achieve the correct thickness?
Yes, just two wires stripped and wound up in a drill to keep them together. Useful if you just want to try the process without spending money on a pack of brazing rods. Personally I would just spend the money but it was fun to try and would be OK if you had no other option.
The 1mm squared wires have a diameter of 1.1mm according to a chart I've seen. Twisted together is 2.2mm so close to a 2.4mm standard rod. I think. I have not looked at the numbers too closely but it seemed about right.
The 1mm squared wires have a diameter of 1.1mm according to a chart I've seen. Twisted together is 2.2mm so close to a 2.4mm standard rod. I think. I have not looked at the numbers too closely but it seemed about right.
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ronan
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Harry Stitt in Northern Ireland, making motorcross/trials frames. Some skills for a young man.
