Renault Kangoo - help with engine problems

[puffernutter]

This concerns a 2000 year Renault Kangoo 1.4 petrol purchased through eBay, advertised as a “project car” with no keys (first mistake!) - it was cheap, that's my excuse!

Arrived with centre part of exhaust missing (including box), one plug lead missing and a few other parts missing.

Work Performed (on or relating to engine) to get it to start!

Auto alarm specialist re-coded the ECU and to two new keys supplied (not cheap!). The immobiliser can now be disabled and the car started. However, the car then proved difficult to start.

A new middle and rear exhaust boxes was purchased. It was then found that the catalytic converter had been modified to suit the previous exhaust and a new catalytic converter was purchased. Lambda sensor swapped from old catalytic converter to new.

New plug lead fitted. TDC sensor removed and cleaned.

Issues

The car was proving difficult to start. The multi-pin plug was removed from the ECU and cleaned (several times) and now starting is more reliably (even though the running isn't!).

When running, it will occasionally (few seconds!) run “sweetly” most of the time it runs rough, without power and a strong smell of unburnt petrol.

Work performed since engine running

Coil pack replaced twice. No change in performance.

ECU put on scanner. No error codes shown when the engine is running. TDC sensor appears to be working OK.

Compression test shows all cylinders are OK.

Fuel tank drained, cleaned and replenished with fresh fuel. Fuel filter replaced. No change

Any ideas where to go next? (Ignoring the obvious of the local scrappy - I've invested too much!)

Cheers

Peter

 

[RonA]

Lambda Sensor (heater coil might have failed / sending wrong data)
Mass Air flow sensor (spray it with contact cleaner but DO NOT touch the sensor wire...)
Spark plugs - gapped and not worn? / correct plugs fitted?
Air filter clean?

Problems with MFS can usually be diagnosed by removing the sensors electrical connection. The ECU will fall back into limp home mode. If the engine runs better with connection removed MFS is suspect. The sensor is usually a hot wire anemometer in a Wheatstone bridge circuit. Cleaning the sensor wire with ISO propyl alcohol may clear problem otherwise changing sensor may be only course left.
RonA

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Do these have crank and cam position sensors? Just thinking out loud.......

 

[doubleboost]

We had one the other day
Fault code was a injector
4 good compressions new injector still idling on 3
Tight tappet was the fault (even with good comps)
The ecu was cutting the fuel to the cylinder with the tight tappet

 

[premmington]

We had one the other day
Fault code was a injector
4 good compressions new injector still idling on 3
Tight tappet was the fault (even with good comps)
The ecu was cutting the fuel to the cylinder with the tight tappet

I have seen this too! The one I had, made no noise from the top end of the engine!

 

[puffernutter]

All, thanks for the suggestions. I'm a hobby mechanic and mainly with classics (where the only electronics are in the alternator and radio!) I'll have to investigate further. The problem I have is that the ECU is showing no error code, so I don't really know where to start to look!

Cheers

Peter

 

[Gavin_d]

Take injector rail out complete with injectors still in and pluged in. Hold the rail over some tissue paper and get sombody to crank over for a few seconds. See if all the small puddles of fuel the injectors make on the tissue are around the same size. Not a 100% pinpoint method but has helped me in the past. Can soon tell you if one of the injectors is over fueling. Also check for air leaks. I normally spray brake cleaner around all the intake and listen for change in engine note.

my brother told me recently that he will never do a mechanical compression test anymore as it can result in wrong diagnosis on the down stroke/leak back and now uses a pressure transducer connected to a osiliscope this gives a while waveform readout of the whole stroke and will pick up sticking tappets ect but that's some expensive equipment.

 

[Gavin_d]

When it was on a scanner was the long and short term fuel trims readings checked. This would highlight any rich/lean running condition.

 

[octo0072000]

change the plugs even if they look ok clean the MAF or unplug it change cam senser /crank senser both are known faults
then the rest as said failing that check valve clearances good bit you can get a complete engine of ebay for £150

 

[Gavin_d]

Am I right in thinking these engines don't have a MAF sensor but a MAP instead.

 

[doubleboost]

It will have a MAF (mass air flow) sensor
You need to run a proper diagnostic scan & go from there
The valve clearances are a basic setting
Many modern "technicians" would have a hard time with basic mechanical settings

 

[Gavin_d]

Was just thinking if it's the same engine as the saxo's they only have map sensor.

 

[puffernutter]

I'm new to Kangoos (a Landrover man usually!) I believe it's the same engine as the Clio.

Cheers

Peter

 

[AndyStobbs]

Renault and PSA have virtually no cross over. Don't know why so many people think they do. As above, check tappets, seen it before.

 

[puffernutter]

Had a play tonight. Took off the air cleaner and put contact cleaner on all the plugs and sockets I could find - didn't seem to make any difference. When you first start the engine, it will run sweetly for about 5s (until the ECU works out what's going on!)then it goes "lumpy". If left idling for a few minutes, it will then run smooth for about 10-15s, then go back to lumpy again, so it CAN do it!

The only effect I managed to achieve was when removing the connector for whatever the device is on the throttle body, it ram smoother with that missing! (I've no idea what that piece is though as there is not Haynes manual for the Kangoo and no workshop manual (that I have access to!)

Cheers

Peter

 

[the snooper]

it could be idle valve that you unplugged they cause those symptoms ive cleaned them out before with success, you may have more then one problem though making things worse

 

[Gavin_d]

Post a pic.

 

[the snooper]

is this what you unplugged

 

[Gavin_d]

Is it only rough on idle or does it do the same all through the Rev range?

I'll have a check on the busted knuckle for you. See if there is any case studies with the same symptoms

 

[puffernutter]

Looks possible, I just undid the electrical connection. It will either rev hard but hunt at the top end of the revs, or it just wont rev (regardless of throttle position). It's become a fine art driving to and from teh test centre changing gear as fast as possible with limited revs and getting as fast as 25mph in 5th!

Cheers

Peter