Respirator suggestions for rattle-can 2k paint?

[gasket999]

Thank you everyone.

Based on the above, I'm definitely going to just stay away from the traditional 2K isocyanates (and cyanides too - oops! That misconception was one of the things that always freaked me out). I've managed without them for 25 years.

So will only be using the 1k paints that I know plus I'll experiment with the non-iso / ADC 2k aerosols.

So, just tweaking the original question slightly back to less-hazardous spraying, could anyone recommend a good safe 3M mask for general spraying at home? Again, the ideal is one with either commonly available filters that haven't changed format in a while (if I assume that cartridges in a rarely used mask must be changed no later than every 6-months then I wouldn't want to buy one and find that in 6 months or a year that I have to buy a whole new mask as you can't get the cartridges anymore).

I'd be storing it in a sealed bag between use to prolong its life.

We did have some for years that came...for free... via an old employer. But since leaving I've found that I now need to fund my own PPE.

 

[Domdom]

So will only be using the 1k paints that I know plus I'll experiment with the non-iso / ADC 2k aerosols.

You can get 2k acrylic with non-isocyanate hardener. A bit slower drying than Iso based but still good paint

 

[gasket999]

You can get 2k acrylic with non-isocyanate hardener. A bit slower drying than Iso based but still good pai

They're the ones mentioned above that I'll have an experiment with. Good to know they work though.

So - I've had a recommendation for the 3M 6500QL respirator. Its also mentioned at 04:30 on a YouTube channel here:

That's just the mask itself, I'll find a stockist locally and go and try one on my face. I'd then need to pick a pair of cartridges/filters to use too.

6501QL = size small, 6502QL = size medium, 6503QL = size large

 

[gasket999]

...and for the filters, 3M have a filter called a "spray paint filter" which seems to be pitched at DIYers spraying everything from paint to adhesive to detergent - these are compatible with the half-mask above, great... but they seem really expensive at £35 a set, whereas the more professional/specialist filters seem to be closer to £12 a set.

 

[Domdom]

Oh yes, if using a half mask remember a set of sealed goggles. Mist in the air will get in your eyes if you don't and this can cause infections or worse.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I use the screwfix 3m half masks when I'm painting anything down the garage (I don't use 2k spray paints)...those blue half masks...not cheap though.

For welding I use a 3m adflo mask and that works really well....together with a general filter in the roof of the garage to take out the dust etc.

...I suffer from sinus problems so I try to avoid breathing in anything that might irritate my sinuses...even grinding and cutting sets me off!

I was looking at the 3 stage filter below...I've been thinking of getting an air fed setup...still wouldn't do 2k at home even with the setup but would be handy for general paints and big dust events (like stripping the underside of cars etc)

3 stage breathing air filter regulator with coalescing and carbon filters

Triple breathing air filter regulator, EN12021 comprises 5 micron pre-filter and regulator then 0.01μ coalescing filter and finally an activated charcoal filter for technically pure breathing air down to 0.003ppm, with filter status guages. Port sizes 1/4, 3/8 + 1/2 BSP. Supplied boxed with 2x...

www.solenoid-valve.world

 

[charlysays]

They're the ones mentioned above that I'll have an experiment with. Good to know they work though.

So - I've had a recommendation for the 3M 6500QL respirator. Its also mentioned at 04:30 on a YouTube channel here:

That's just the mask itself, I'll find a stockist locally and go and try one on my face. I'd then need to pick a pair of cartridges/filters to use too.

6501QL = size small, 6502QL = size medium, 6503QL = size large

After trying pretty much all the non iso options over the years there's really only one worth trying if you want 2k level durability... HMG Nisocoat 2 or Cromadex 800. Nisocoat 2 probably has the higher quality finish, I've only seen mention of the cromadex used on stuff like fabrication work/ girders.

These are true 2k coatings with similar performance to the isocyanate paints they are designed to replace. They are a 2k acrylic (use 2k acrylic thinner with them) but use a polyamide hardener. They have high solids, good coverage, excellent gloss and colour retention and go rock hard even if you apply it with a hosepipe and come in all the RAL, BS, automotive and clear coat colours (Nisocoat clear has a slight yellow tinge to it but sprays better than the direct gloss). The only real down sides are they flash off quite fast so you have to work fast to keep a wet edge. Fine for smaller items but if painting a car, you have to do it a few panels at a time or it ends up looking dry and dusty. The tack/ mist/ gripper coat technique used with other car paints doesn't really work with it as the overcoat time for the next coat to melt into the gripper coat is so knife edge fine that you just end up with orange peel coming through from the gripper coat.
These are your only options if you want a 2k finish without isocyanates tbh.
I think you can get cromadex 800 in an aerosol too...

I wouldn't bother with the 2k "converted" paint. It has nowhere near the durability of proper 2k and never really goes hard

 

[julianf]

I'm sure I remember @KimB mentioning a time limited disposable mask at some point in the past?

 

[northwest]

Yes the Mericans dont do health and safety

As mentioned, they replace common sense with litigation.

get some cheap tack covid masks sorted

Just do what I do and have done successfully for years, learn to hold your breath for long periods, I am up to thirty minutes now!

 

[Stupoty]

get some cheap tack covid masks sorted

Ive been having to hold my toung around people using them as dust/fume masks.

Stu

 

[brightspark]

Ive been having to hold my toung around people using them as dust/fume masks.

Stu

total rubbish .wernt even worth wearing for covid. since everyones stopped wearing them it hasnt increased

 

[Lazurus]

I have no experience of painting but for wood butchery I use a positive pressure JSP Aircap - would that be an alternative if the filters were of a suitable standard

 

[DennisCA]

This is exactly what the OP wants to do and needs

Well worth a read

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg473.pdf

I thought this was true!

 

[fizzy]

I use one of these - and this is a serious bargain price on Ebay.
I am very sensitive to fume etc but never get a whiff of anything.

£54.95 for one of these is an absolute steal. I might get another as a spare. Check size though - says medium to large. Not sure what mine are.
£64.95 with a pair of multi use filters

Filters are out of date 2024 but who cares for home use as long as they are sealed?

Scott Promask 2 + A2P3R Filters Panoramic Size M/L Bio Protect Respirator Safety | eBay

ProMask2 & optional A2P3R Scott Filters supplied. Full Face Panoramic Vision. Highly efficient speech diaphragm provides clear, natural communication, thereby enhancing both safety and convenience. A next generation, multi-function, full face mask provides unrivalled comfort and protection...

www.ebay.co.uk

Type A2 protects against organic gases and vapors, eg solvents, whose boiling point exceeds +65 ° C.

Type P3 R protects against solid and liquid particles, radioactive and highly toxic particles, bacteria and viruses.

R (Re-useable): Filter is designed to be used for more than one work shift.

DROPLET SIZE EFFICIENCY 0.09 micron 99.9993% 0.12 micron 99.9963% 0.18 micron 99.9936% 0.22 micron 99.9948% 0.32 micron 99.9981%

 

[julianf]

I think that the trouble with non-air fed is that you never really know when to change the filters.

 

[fizzy]

I think that the trouble with non-air fed is that you never really know when to change the filters.

When using solvents etc they have time limits. But if you leave them for a few days they clear themselves. I have used mine off and on for 2 years but if I was spraying regularly I would swap far more often. I use mine when cutting wood on the bandsaw - never mists up unlike goggles. You can get coarse fibre filters to add inside the housing to prevent sawdust etc clogging them up. Cheap and easy to replace.
Give great protection when using an angle grinder as well.
Just have to remember NOT to pick up the welder - they aren't very good at stopping arc eye - nearly done it twice now

 

[ajlelectronics]

I think that the trouble with non-air fed is that you never really know when to change the filters.

The main problem is sealing. Especially with the current fashion for looking like you have slept in a hedge for a fortnight, the seal to skin is extremely important. A positive pressure respirator overcomes that risk and is also far nicer to use in a warm sprayshop.

 

[Parm]

I thought this was true!

View attachment 460929

They can cause irritant or allergic contact dermatitis upon skin contact

 

[ajlelectronics]

They can cause irritant or allergic contact dermatitis upon skin contact

As can anything other than water of course. It makes sense to avoid contact where possible.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Classic example of why you shouldn't listen to advice on internet forums

Doesn't mean that you've always done it like this makes it right

To be entirely honest even seasoned Health and Safety professionals are frequently clueless about RPE selection and Occupational Toxicology.

It's a specialised niche that frequently gets overlooked.

The last thing in the world anyone needs when spraying isocyanates is filtering respirator

HSE's guidance is unusually specific regarding this, they very rarely feel the need to write prescriptive guidance, so it's obviously a major issue.

They specify APF40 (Full face mask, or positive pressure hood) or higher is required (this is a higher APF than you might otherwise choose based on the toxicology data, and is a blanket recommendation ignoring exposure level, both unusual)

They go on to make clear that only a air-supplied positive pressure system is acceptable for indoor spraying of isocyanates, (so that's air-fed hoods or SCBA style positive demand masks only).

A PAPR hood, or a fit-tested full face, negative pressure filter mask, with A1BEK filter (which generally last 8 hrs of use or 30 days from opening the packet), is deemed suitable for outdoor spraying, indoor handling, and indoor brush/rollering.

Frankly I don't believe it is worth the risk, watching someone struggling to breathe is not a nice thing.

Sensitisers are scary, because they don't affect you, until suddenly they really do, and there's no predicting it.

A chap I used to manage was unexpectedly exposed to a very large quantity of isocyanate on a customers site, due to mislabeled containers.

Despite having worked with them safely for years, that one big unprotected exposure gave him a full on sensitiser reaction, and caused his airways to near completely shut.

Thanks to a doctor from the customer's site medical center intubating him at the scene, he survived more or less unharmed.

But that was his operational career over, and he had to take an office job (which he was great at, but hated).

To this day he can't be in the same room as someone using super-glue without having a fairly severe allergic reaction.