SGS GASES

[tom-madbiker]

has anyone tried sgs gases they seem to be available from motor parts direct and all parts do a good range of gases ox co2/argon in a range of flavours only thing they dont appear to do is acetylene thinking of changing from freshford as the nearest to me is dunstable and he wont deliver as far as me and its a right pain collecting it also they are 200 bar bottles instead of 137bar

 

[Parm]

I'm interested in this too, any answers will be most useful

 

[fatfranky]

For what it's worth, I recently looked at getting a rent free bottle of argoshield light (95% argon! they all call it something different)

SGS (or their local agent) seemed to be the cheapest of the rent free suppliers for a 20L bottle, but even so the cost was about £70 deposit + £70 per refill (SGS will give £20 cash back on the deposit to forum members though).

I ended up going for the BOC volkszone deal which is 25.60 gas price, surcharge 1.31p, rental £37.40 per year.

A quick fag packet calculation said that if I used 1 bottle per year, with BOC it would cost £65 including rental, but with SGS it would cost £120 in the first year then £70 per year thereafter, also the BOC bottles are filled to 230 bar, the SGS ones 200 bar and some others 137 bar!

I'm not a BOC fan & think some of their rental charges in the past have been outrageous, I think its likely that they have only introduced this offer to compete with the rent free suppliers, but how can they fill a bottle (to about 15% higher pressure) for £25, when the rent free suppliers are charging £70!

All of the above is based on what is suitable for ME, you should all do your own research, also I believe all of the above excludes VAT

Regards

 

[dannyp]

more than onw way to skin cat. boc and rent free lot will both have your cash just in diffrent ways

 

[Bill Edwards]

But in different amounts.

Rent free options have their place but I am inclined to think they are doing exactly what BOC used to do when they had the monopoly - charge as much as they want.
The BOC Volkzone offer hasn't been round that long and isn't that well known compared to the rent free options, so a huge amount of people won't be aware of how cheaply they can rent a bottle - especially when even some BOC outlets don't appear to be aware of the offer!

Therefor a lot of people who are small users of gas will automatically opt for the rent free route assuming that despite the huge fill costs it's cheaper. Simple maths does show that you don't need to go through much gas to be far better off renting.
It is time the rent free companies drastically drop their prices in order to continue to compete, as the Volkzone offer is very good (and I am very grateful to BOC for running it).
With the current prices the rent free options are pretty poor.

 

[Parm]

Can you get oxygen on the BOC Volks deal ?

 

[Fazerruss]

When l looked into sgs prices they weren't as bad as that. Bottle was £55 surcharge and about £70 refill for PURE ARGON...
I think the price depends a lot on the distributors profit margin.

 

[Wallace]

Can you get oxygen on the BOC Volks deal ?

Just Argoshield and Argon as far as I know, dropping the price on my O/A in line with the Volkzone offer would be nice.

 

[tom-madbiker]

right got prices motor parts direct are cheaper than allparts by about 30 quid

here is the mpd prices which are nearer so better for me anyway all prices +vat

5%co2 arg mix 10litre dep£60 fill £38
" 20litre dep£70 fill £58
" 30litre dep£100 fill £75

same for 10%co2 and 15%co2

bottle dep same for all other gases fills as follows

pure argon 10L £52 20L £75 30L £95

oxygen 10L £38 20L £58 30L £75

SGS fuel aparrently a sub for acetylene gonna check tho rep in tues booked a meeting

10L £64 20L £110

hope this helps im going for the 20L 10% i think as this is rough the same as my current gas and i get the £20 quid back

 

[tom-madbiker]

forgot to mention the fill pressure is 200 bar

 

[Parm]

Just a bit of interest,

Phoned a local supplier Central Autos, who claim they are now owned by motor parts direct to get a quote for a 20l oxy cylinder. Price quoted was £85 for the gas and £ 123 for the deposit. Naturally I asked why such a huge variation in price and was given the storey that the cannot even buy it themselves for that cost.

So, phoned another local supplier (only one retail shop) and was quoted £61.94 for gas and £60 deposit !.. Interesting this as this supplier was only 4 miles away so wouldn't expect huge variation in deliver costs.

So next I spoke with SGS directly and learn that gas is sold at a standard cost and it's up to the individual retailers to set retail prices!!!!

After 15 mins of research today it looks like the welding gas retail supply market is run by masked robbing highway men out to screw the hobbyists and professionals alike.

I think it's high time we all get together and see if we can negotiate a deal or as a minimum get a basic and sensible pricing structure in place

 

[dannyp]

i recon the sgs bottels are more like 180 bar fill

 

[andym2]

Can anyone advise if you need a side entry regulator for SGS 5% CO2/Argon mix bottles, or a bottom entry (BOC) one?

 

[dannyp]

if you had the choice side entry would suit it better, tho bottom entry regs will fit

 

[steviec_lj]

It doesn't matter which way your regulator is. It makes absolutely no difference to the reading on the gauges..

 

[dannyp]

just the bottom entry regs are a bit tight on the bottel collar, they fit but ned to be on the sque a bit and need to check the adjuster isn't fouling when doing up the fitting, hence why said side entry reg suits it better if have the choice, as that way the reg is free of any chance of fouling the collar

 

[Agautosport]

Just a bit of interest,

Phoned a local supplier Central Autos, who claim they are now owned by motor parts direct to get a quote for a 20l oxy cylinder. Price quoted was £85 for the gas and £ 123 for the deposit. Naturally I asked why such a huge variation in price and was given the storey that the cannot even buy it themselves for that cost.

So, phoned another local supplier (only one retail shop) and was quoted £61.94 for gas and £60 deposit !.. Interesting this as this supplier was only 4 miles away so wouldn't expect huge variation in deliver costs.

So next I spoke with SGS directly and learn that gas is sold at a standard cost and it's up to the individual retailers to set retail prices!!!!

After 15 mins of research today it looks like the welding gas retail supply market is run by masked robbing highway men out to screw the hobbyists and professionals alike.

I think it's high time we all get together and see if we can negotiate a deal or as a minimum get a basic and sensible pricing structure in place

Wow , a number of points to cover !
Firstly Central Autoparts are now owned be Motor Parts Direct .
The person who quoted you £123 deposit clearly did not know what he was talking about .( I guess they meant the deposit plus the gas, Remember staff change all the time at motor factors). The deposit would be £70.00 just like any other Motor Parts Direct branch. ( The £70.00 deposit covers the cost of the cylinder and the valve , nothing more. If anyone can sell me new , tested cylinders of good quality for less than that please let me know !)

Retailers are free to set their own prices , however most now stick to our suggested prices.

Believe me I do not wear a mask during my working hours ! Southwest Gas Supplies Ltd , also known as SGS Gases was set up just over 4 years ago with the sole intention of bringing rent free welding gas to as many people in the UK as possible. The inspiration for the entire set up was my personal kneed for cheep mig gas to restore a MK2 Escort and prepare it as a rally car !
Since 2010 we have purchased nearly 30,000 cylinders and are still putting about 2,000 new cylinders into the market place each month.
We have achieved this by continually reinvesting into our stock of cylinders.
If BOC are able to offer deals like the Volkzone one why have they not been offering it in the past 50 years or so ?
Maybe people like us have prompted this change in direction.

Our biggest cost is transport , moving cylinders around the country is expensive !

Hope the above helps you all understand our business and the motivation behind it .

Alan Holly
Director , Southwest Gas Supplies Ltd

 

[dannyp]

BOC are a strange outfit.

i can go into my local BOC agent and ask for a price on a bottel of baloon helium and they quote me apoxamatly £120. yet stood there at there counter i can buy a bottel of baloon helium on the internet on my phone from a 3rd party. that i collect at one of there "distrobution outlets" for £60 that i pay to the 3rd party and walk out 5 minutes later with the same cylinder.

****** me off a bit as had a BOC account an i may not buy ballon gas but plenty of argon , oxy and co2. would have thought they would have given me a better price for haveing a bottel on my account than they did, at the end of that month BOC got all there cyls back and i closed the account

 

[visor_down]

i recon the sgs bottels are more like 180 bar fill

I queried this with them and was told the following...... When a bottle of gas is filled the gas and the bottle heats up , to counter the difference the temperature makes the bottles are filled to 250 bar and allowed to cool . The pressure drops to 200 bar when the bottle is at room temperature.
The initial fill of these bottles happens abroad , our first fill of these bottles only happens after the first use. The cost price of the difference between 180 bar and 200 bar is so low that it would not be worth "short filling " if that is what you are implying.
HTH

 

[AndyT8]

Lots of alternative offerings to Acetylene seem to be appearing now. Since MAPP went away in 2008 seems propylene is the favourite alternative choice.

Is the SGS Profuel the same as the MAPP gas replacement called MAP-Pro ? Basically propylene. I see Air Liquide are branding propylene as Flamal. Why don't they all just sell it under its generic name Propylene I wonder. I can understand MAP Pro to gain the ex MAPP gas users but not the others.

See this interesting link http://www.alspecialtygases.com/Ind_flamal.aspx