The_Yellow_Ardvark
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- Thread starter MattF
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Hello,
First time here.
I am looking for some help in identifying a vice that I own. Anyone know make and approx. age? It has a 5" jaw.
Pictures are in the following link:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PyxrXJfzLsmXBWh26
Does anyone also know the thread size and type for screws (research suggests 5/16" BSW or BSF. Hole diameter is 5/16") and the countersink angle and total screw length?
Any help appreciated
First time here.
I am looking for some help in identifying a vice that I own. Anyone know make and approx. age? It has a 5" jaw.
Pictures are in the following link:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PyxrXJfzLsmXBWh26
Does anyone also know the thread size and type for screws (research suggests 5/16" BSW or BSF. Hole diameter is 5/16") and the countersink angle and total screw length?
Any help appreciated
Craig-SM
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Right I need your collective wisdom with this one
Record 36 QR Vice. Help needed!
Bought this off a forum member today with a QR problem. Got it home and had a quick look to see the that the screw was winding itself into the dynamic jaw until the boss on the handle would bind against the QR handle so moving in a around an inch. This was a bit puzzling as I've never seen them...
www.mig-welding.co.uk
SteveB58
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I think it is a Parkinson Handy, their 3B had 5 inch jaws. As for the size of the machine screws 5/16 BSF sounds right, as for countersink angle, no idea, I always used 60 degrees. Hands up I'm no expert there are others with far more knowledge on this site.
yes seen a few, apparently the patent was for the cut out groves in the top jaws, designed to make cutting pipe easier, didnt really catch on i think, they look like a well built above bench wood vice
theres one for sale locally for 45 nzd
Thank you.
From research, I had an idea that it may be a Parkinson.
Any idea how old? On Internet, I read that on other vices the round spindle head (instead of cylindrical) males vices quite early.
dannysheff
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I'm pretty sure the Reg Des no is Parkinsons' - made in Shipley, near Bradford --- before about 1900 they had an unregistered/patented Handy design with two parts to the static (bench) side (although they did reg des a version of that with a small anvil on the static) ----- word was that they were not happy with so many copies of this older version. The type you have is in the trade catalogues from about 1900 as the 'Improved' parallel cast iron bench vice. Of course, it was soon followed by all and sundry's copy, including at least half-a-doz makers here in Sheffield, especially post WW1. The Parkinsons' Handies are fine vices (as are most of the UK copies), made in a huge range of sizes from 2 1/4in 00 weighing about 3kg to (briefly) 8in jaws at something like 100kg(?). - all straightforward hard-working tools, can be beat up, but nothing much to go wrong. For some reason, unlike the 'Perfect' lines, they often didn't cast in their details, just used decal/stickers, which don't last long.
And yes, the spherical, not cylindrical boss for the tommy bar does tend to place vices at an earlier date.
I'm not sure how you search UK registered designs, but someone has a listing on a website of numbers per year (not details).
Thanks for that information.
So, if I understand correctly, it is a Parkinson 'Handy' but the 'improved' version.
It is certainly true that they are durable. Mine has sat outside in all weathers for years and has worked tirelessly without fault.
It has developed a lovely patina. The orange surface rust that you see has only occurred due to heating the sheared-screw shanks.
StevieO
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- Stoke on Trent, UK
Hi,
The "Improved Handy Parallel vice" by Parkinson wa shown in the Buck & Hickman 1912 catalogue.
Although B&H used their own order number [1936], the 3B size is still shown in the table.
AND Parkinson still showed it in their 1940 catalogue - see below.
although to the keen eyed - there is a distinct difference in the illustration of the round hub of 1912 to a more Tulip hub in the 1940 cat.
dannysheff
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there's an early C&J Hampton model 22 no.3 'Record' on thebay - interesting because dated 1915 - maybe just a while after the patent for Parkinsons 'Perfect' expired (17 or 25 years?? back then) - so company name C&J Hampton and Record just a response to Perfect?
I have a rusty and overpainted (also green) one of these, with similar C&J H mark.
also confirms Sheffield (the Hampton family were previously based in B'ham area under the name of Hampton Nut Company and Woden, then split into two similar outfits with diff family members.
Oh - it's not cheap, but is interesting and looks in fair shape - green painted (original?)
I have a rusty and overpainted (also green) one of these, with similar C&J H mark.
also confirms Sheffield (the Hampton family were previously based in B'ham area under the name of Hampton Nut Company and Woden, then split into two similar outfits with diff family members.
Oh - it's not cheap, but is interesting and looks in fair shape - green painted (original?)
Last edited:
StevieO
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Interesting in that the hub is flat, not round, on a 2 piece main body.
Bit of a mix as the 2 piece indicates some age (in design) yet the flat hubs did not appear across many manufacturers until much later (eg Woden 1931, Record 1935).
Thank you for this detailed information.
Seadog
Save the planet. It's the only one with rum!
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Like thisInteresting in that the hub is flat, not round, on a 2 piece main body.
Bit of a mix as the 2 piece indicates some age (in design) yet the flat hubs did not appear across many manufacturers until much later (eg Woden 1931, Record 1935).
StevieO
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Lovely example of a very early Woden, yet hard to date.
Woden was a Trademark, but not sure from which date.
In this 1916 advertisement they were a single piece housing and round hub. I believe the 2 piece housing was earlier.
Joseph Hampton Ltd was founded in 1851 and amalgamated with The Steel Nut Company in 1897.
The Steel Nut & Joseph Hampton Ltd of Wolverhampton began manufacture of “Nuts and Bolts. Specialities: Nut and Bolt Department: Bolts and Nuts, Set Screws, Studs, Washers etc., Bright and Semi-bright Finish (from 1/8 in. to 3 in.), suitable for Marine, Electrical, Motor and Cycle Engineers, manufactured from solid steel bar. Steel Department: Bright Drawn and Boiled Mild Bars, Rounds, Hexagons, Squares and other sections, specially prepared for High-speed Machining and Case Hardening and equal to Admiralty requirements. Tool Department: Lifting Jacks, Tube Cutters, Vices, Cramps and other Joiners' and Engineers' Tools. Foundry Department: Best Malleable and Grey Iron Castings for Marine, Electrical, Motor, Cycle and Mechanical Engineers, Tramway Castings a speciality”. (Graces Guide, 2021)
So at a guess Seadog, your 2 piece housing/Woden badged example was somewhere between 1897 and 1916.
StevieO
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For any interest.
List of Patent and Registered Design numbers I have found so far.
Any additions welcome please. There are a number for Parkinson yet to be added.
A side note concerning Fortis.
I have read a few opinions over time about either Fortis basically just making vice for Alfred Herbert (because the AH Ajax vice was identical in most respects to the Fortis) - OR even AH making the vice under AJAX and then making a version for Fortis to sell. And, both companies were from Coventry.
My thoughts.
1. Fortis were in the Buck and Hickman catalogues for years. B&H were competitors to Alfred Herbert.
2. Fortis was an independent company established in 1900. Directors were not connected to AH.
3. Fortis took out their own Patent for mounting jaws in vice (as above). Patents protect manufacturers.
4. There are so many different Fortis designs and mods and changes, (yet Ajax remained the same one design) that Fortis must have been the manufacturer - playing with designs - not AH.
Hence I believe Fortis was a separate company to AH. Also evidenced by their establishment, ownership and also one director Hubert Martin being the inventor of the above Patent.
Fortis is an enigma at the moment as data is so short on them. We can see so many examples of their designs, some terrific in my opinion, yet very little about them. Not even a Fortis catalogue can I find.
If anyone sees one - SHOUT!
List of Patent and Registered Design numbers I have found so far.
Any additions welcome please. There are a number for Parkinson yet to be added.
| Patent RD No | Manufacturer | Date | Notes |
| Pat GB196858 | C & J Hampton Record | 03.05.1923 | Improvements in or relating to vices Size 00 - 8, 32-36 with "Unbreakable nut" |
| RD 666598 | C & J Hampton Record | Size 00 - 8, 32-36 with "Unbreakable nut" | |
| Pat GB310723 | C & J Hampton Record | 02.05.1929 | Improvements in or relating to vices (74 and 75 auto vices) |
| Pat GB858489 | C & J Hampton Record | 11.01.1961 | Improvements in or relating to bench vices (Leader series in steel) |
| Pat GB704042 | C & J Hampton Record | 17.02.1954 | Improvements in or relating to bench vices (Swivel base design) |
| Pat GB679982 | C & J Hampton Record | 24.09.1952 | Improvements in or relating to bench vices |
| Pat GB462834 | C & J Hampton Record | 17.03.1937 | Improvements relating to vices Ideal 186 & Ideal 99. Half back turn to quick release |
| Pat GB115931 | Fortis | 30.05.1918 | Improvements in Vices. Method to connect jaws to vice. |
| RD 689821 | Parkinson | Handy Vice | |
| Pat GB190625134 | Steel Nut & Hampton Woden | 22.08.1907 | Improvements in Vices |
| Pat GB462834 | Steel Nut & Hampton Woden | 17.03.1917 | Improvements relating to Vices |
| Pat GB697238 | Steel Nut & Hampton Woden | 16.09.1953 | Improvements in quick release Vices |
| Pat GB800885 | Steel Nut & Hampton Woden | 03.09.1958 | Improvements in or relating to Vices |
A side note concerning Fortis.
I have read a few opinions over time about either Fortis basically just making vice for Alfred Herbert (because the AH Ajax vice was identical in most respects to the Fortis) - OR even AH making the vice under AJAX and then making a version for Fortis to sell. And, both companies were from Coventry.
My thoughts.
1. Fortis were in the Buck and Hickman catalogues for years. B&H were competitors to Alfred Herbert.
2. Fortis was an independent company established in 1900. Directors were not connected to AH.
3. Fortis took out their own Patent for mounting jaws in vice (as above). Patents protect manufacturers.
4. There are so many different Fortis designs and mods and changes, (yet Ajax remained the same one design) that Fortis must have been the manufacturer - playing with designs - not AH.
Hence I believe Fortis was a separate company to AH. Also evidenced by their establishment, ownership and also one director Hubert Martin being the inventor of the above Patent.
Fortis is an enigma at the moment as data is so short on them. We can see so many examples of their designs, some terrific in my opinion, yet very little about them. Not even a Fortis catalogue can I find.
If anyone sees one - SHOUT!
StevieO
Member
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- 190
- Location
- Stoke on Trent, UK
PS. Just found a Patent by F Parramore (PARAMO).. very interesting.... clip-on soft jaws for vice.... One to add to my excel list..For any interest.
List of Patent and Registered Design numbers I have found so far.
Any additions welcome please. There are a number for Parkinson yet to be added.
Patent RD No Manufacturer Date Notes Pat GB196858 C & J Hampton Record 03.05.1923 Improvements in or relating to vices Size 00 - 8, 32-36 with "Unbreakable nut" RD 666598 C & J Hampton Record Size 00 - 8, 32-36 with "Unbreakable nut" Pat GB310723 C & J Hampton Record 02.05.1929 Improvements in or relating to vices (74 and 75 auto vices) Pat GB858489 C & J Hampton Record 11.01.1961 Improvements in or relating to bench vices (Leader series in steel) Pat GB704042 C & J Hampton Record 17.02.1954 Improvements in or relating to bench vices (Swivel base design) Pat GB679982 C & J Hampton Record 24.09.1952 Improvements in or relating to bench vices Pat GB462834 C & J Hampton Record 17.03.1937 Improvements relating to vices Ideal 186 & Ideal 99. Half back turn to quick release Pat GB115931 Fortis 30.05.1918 Improvements in Vices. Method to connect jaws to vice. RD 689821 Parkinson Handy Vice Pat GB190625134 Steel Nut & Hampton Woden 22.08.1907 Improvements in Vices Pat GB462834 Steel Nut & Hampton Woden 17.03.1917 Improvements relating to Vices Pat GB697238 Steel Nut & Hampton Woden 16.09.1953 Improvements in quick release Vices Pat GB800885 Steel Nut & Hampton Woden 03.09.1958 Improvements in or relating to Vices
A side note concerning Fortis.
I have read a few opinions over time about either Fortis basically just making vice for Alfred Herbert (because the AH Ajax vice was identical in most respects to the Fortis) - OR even AH making the vice under AJAX and then making a version for Fortis to sell. And, both companies were from Coventry.
My thoughts.
1. Fortis were in the Buck and Hickman catalogues for years. B&H were competitors to Alfred Herbert.
2. Fortis was an independent company established in 1900. Directors were not connected to AH.
3. Fortis took out their own Patent for mounting jaws in vice (as above). Patents protect manufacturers.
4. There are so many different Fortis designs and mods and changes, (yet Ajax remained the same one design) that Fortis must have been the manufacturer - playing with designs - not AH.
Hence I believe Fortis was a separate company to AH. Also evidenced by their establishment, ownership and also one director Hubert Martin being the inventor of the above Patent.
Fortis is an enigma at the moment as data is so short on them. We can see so many examples of their designs, some terrific in my opinion, yet very little about them. Not even a Fortis catalogue can I find.
If anyone sees one - SHOUT!
