bigkev75
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I have the two 8 pin relays one is 12vdc and one is 240V how would I wire the 8 contact on each one ?
- Thread starter bigkev75
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The relay base is designed for clipping onto a DIN rail, which is a standardised 35mm wide steel strip used for mounting electrical components. The yellow pull-out tab releases the clip, to detach the relay from the rail.
The wiring of the laptop power supply, the PWM speed controller, and the relay is described in post #24 of this thread. The power supply and the speed controller will be on all the time that the welder is on, and the relay is used to join the motor to the speed controller when the MIG torch trigger is pressed.
I think it is easiest if you use the relay with the 240v coil, and wire it across the primary of the main welding transformer. That way, when the big transformer comes on to produce welding power, the wirefeed motor starts up as well.
I think the 240v relay coil connections are pins 7 and 8 on the relay base. It looks like there is a red LED to show the coil is on.
( I think the green LED is on the relay with the 12v coil. That relay isn't needed.)
I think that 5 and 6 are the two moving contacts of the relay ( the "poles" ), and these go to the two terminals on the back of the wirefeed motor.
Pins 1 and 2 are the normally-closed contacts ( NC ), and these should be wired together, as a dead short, which will brake the motor to a rapid halt and prevent run-on of the wire when the trigger is released.
Pins 3 and 4 are the normally-open ( NO ) contacts, and they should be wired to the variable output of the PWM speed controller ( i.e. the terminals on that board marked "Motor" ).
The wiring of the laptop power supply, the PWM speed controller, and the relay is described in post #24 of this thread. The power supply and the speed controller will be on all the time that the welder is on, and the relay is used to join the motor to the speed controller when the MIG torch trigger is pressed.
I think it is easiest if you use the relay with the 240v coil, and wire it across the primary of the main welding transformer. That way, when the big transformer comes on to produce welding power, the wirefeed motor starts up as well.
I think the 240v relay coil connections are pins 7 and 8 on the relay base. It looks like there is a red LED to show the coil is on.
( I think the green LED is on the relay with the 12v coil. That relay isn't needed.)
I think that 5 and 6 are the two moving contacts of the relay ( the "poles" ), and these go to the two terminals on the back of the wirefeed motor.
Pins 1 and 2 are the normally-closed contacts ( NC ), and these should be wired together, as a dead short, which will brake the motor to a rapid halt and prevent run-on of the wire when the trigger is released.
Pins 3 and 4 are the normally-open ( NO ) contacts, and they should be wired to the variable output of the PWM speed controller ( i.e. the terminals on that board marked "Motor" ).
bigkev75
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ok thanks Eddie can you give me advice on when you say “ wire it across the primary of the main welding transformer” What wires are they? Sorry I have little knowledge in electronics.
so the 240V relay that I have which you are describing in #102 is the same one that is mentioned in #24 below?
so I don’t need any other relay now just this 240V one with mounting base?
thisis from #24 “The power supply is wired to the main on/off switch, so that when the welder is on, the PS is permanently on. Then the PS output goes to the speed controller input. The two motor terminals go to the two moving poles of a 2-pole 2-way relay ( DPDT relay ). The normally-closed contacts on that relay are joined together, to short the motor and brake it to a rapid stop. The normally-open contacts on the relay connect to the speed controller output. The coil of the relay can be 230v AC, wired across the main power transformer, or 24v DC, wired in place of where the original motor wires were. The control knob of the new speed controller mounts on the front panel in place of the original, but the old board is still retained inside the machine.”
so the 240V relay that I have which you are describing in #102 is the same one that is mentioned in #24 below?
so I don’t need any other relay now just this 240V one with mounting base?
thisis from #24 “The power supply is wired to the main on/off switch, so that when the welder is on, the PS is permanently on. Then the PS output goes to the speed controller input. The two motor terminals go to the two moving poles of a 2-pole 2-way relay ( DPDT relay ). The normally-closed contacts on that relay are joined together, to short the motor and brake it to a rapid stop. The normally-open contacts on the relay connect to the speed controller output. The coil of the relay can be 230v AC, wired across the main power transformer, or 24v DC, wired in place of where the original motor wires were. The control knob of the new speed controller mounts on the front panel in place of the original, but the old board is still retained inside the machine.”
Yes, those two postings, #24 and #102, are describing the wiring of the contacts at the same relay, which is just the one extra relay needed, with a 240v coil and mounted on a base. No need to use the 12v relay in this project. The relay is there to join the motor to the output of the new speed controller, when the MIG torch trigger switch is pressed.
Originally I said "I think that 5 and 6 are the two moving contacts of the relay ( the "poles" ), and these go to the two terminals on the back of the wirefeed motor." I can now see that the motor has wires, not terminals, so it is the red and blue wires from the motor that go to pins 5 and 6 of the relay. These are the moving poles of the relay. When the relay is off, at rest, these poles connect to pins 1 and 2. You need to put a wire from 1 to 2, so that at rest the motor is shorted out. That will bring it to a rapid stop - the same way that the electric brake on a cordless drill stops it from running-on.
When you test the modification, if you find that the wirefeed motor turns backwards, just swap over the red and blue motor wires on pins 5 and 6 at the relay.
To wire the 240v coil of this new relay across the main welding transformer:
In this thread
there is a circuit diagram in post #8. At the top left, the mains input cable goes to the red on/off switch on the front panel. You can follow the mains cable from where it enters the machine over to the switch. The two power wires, brown Live and blue Neutral, will have push-on tags at the back of the switch, and opposite each of them will be the two outputs from the switch. The output wires may also be corresponding colours, brown and blue, or maybe not.
On the diagram, you can see that one of the On/Off switch output pins goes to the moving arm of the 3-way "Min/Med/Max" power selector switch. There is also a connection to the upper of the three push-on tags on the PCB. At the PCB, it is a blue wire.
In the machine, you can trace the wires by following the colours, by pulling them, or by using a meter to test continuity.
You need to make two new connections onto this output pin of the On/Off switch:
- one wire of the new Laptop power supply mains input
- pin 7 of the new 240v relay ( i.e. one end of the operating coil ).
On the diagram, the other output pin of the On/Off switch goes to the middle of the three push-on tags on the PCB. At the PCB, this is also a blue wire. You need to make one new connection onto this output pin of the switch:
- the second wire of the mains input to the Laptop power supply.
This way, when the front panel On/Off switch is on, the laptop power supply is on.
When the MIG torch trigger is pressed, the small relay on the PCB joins the mains from the blue middle push-on wire to the lowest push-on tag, which is a black wire. So the black wire at the PCB is the switched mains. On the diagram, you can follow this wire from the lowest push-on tag on the PCB up to the moving arm of the "1/2" power selector switch. You need to make one new connection onto this black wire:
- pin 8 of the new 240v relay.
This way, when the torch trigger is pressed, as well as the main welding transformer getting power, so does the operating coil of the new relay. The relay will pull in, switching the two motor wires fro a dead short over to the "Motor" output of the new PWM speed controller. The wirefeed motor will start running, at whatever speed has been set on the new speed control knob.
Originally I said "I think that 5 and 6 are the two moving contacts of the relay ( the "poles" ), and these go to the two terminals on the back of the wirefeed motor." I can now see that the motor has wires, not terminals, so it is the red and blue wires from the motor that go to pins 5 and 6 of the relay. These are the moving poles of the relay. When the relay is off, at rest, these poles connect to pins 1 and 2. You need to put a wire from 1 to 2, so that at rest the motor is shorted out. That will bring it to a rapid stop - the same way that the electric brake on a cordless drill stops it from running-on.
When you test the modification, if you find that the wirefeed motor turns backwards, just swap over the red and blue motor wires on pins 5 and 6 at the relay.
To wire the 240v coil of this new relay across the main welding transformer:
In this thread
SIP wirefeed board replacement
Hi, can anyone help? I am replacing the wire feed board in my SIP Autoplus 130 Mig and I have mislaid the diagram I made of the wiring (I removed the board a few weeks ago as the stockist needed to see the old board before a new one was ordered). I especially need to know the location of the 4...
www.mig-welding.co.uk
On the diagram, you can see that one of the On/Off switch output pins goes to the moving arm of the 3-way "Min/Med/Max" power selector switch. There is also a connection to the upper of the three push-on tags on the PCB. At the PCB, it is a blue wire.
In the machine, you can trace the wires by following the colours, by pulling them, or by using a meter to test continuity.
You need to make two new connections onto this output pin of the On/Off switch:
- one wire of the new Laptop power supply mains input
- pin 7 of the new 240v relay ( i.e. one end of the operating coil ).
On the diagram, the other output pin of the On/Off switch goes to the middle of the three push-on tags on the PCB. At the PCB, this is also a blue wire. You need to make one new connection onto this output pin of the switch:
- the second wire of the mains input to the Laptop power supply.
This way, when the front panel On/Off switch is on, the laptop power supply is on.
When the MIG torch trigger is pressed, the small relay on the PCB joins the mains from the blue middle push-on wire to the lowest push-on tag, which is a black wire. So the black wire at the PCB is the switched mains. On the diagram, you can follow this wire from the lowest push-on tag on the PCB up to the moving arm of the "1/2" power selector switch. You need to make one new connection onto this black wire:
- pin 8 of the new 240v relay.
This way, when the torch trigger is pressed, as well as the main welding transformer getting power, so does the operating coil of the new relay. The relay will pull in, switching the two motor wires fro a dead short over to the "Motor" output of the new PWM speed controller. The wirefeed motor will start running, at whatever speed has been set on the new speed control knob.
bigkev75
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Hi Eddie,
I have Been looking at autoplus 130 wiring diagram seems mine is wired a bit different, the white wire from the pcb green connector is soldered to the blue motor feed and the red wire from the green connector goes into the transformer and back out and connect to where the torch connect too, there is also a black wire connected with them as well I don’t have the thermostat that’s on the wiring diagram Either
I have Been looking at autoplus 130 wiring diagram seems mine is wired a bit different, the white wire from the pcb green connector is soldered to the blue motor feed and the red wire from the green connector goes into the transformer and back out and connect to where the torch connect too, there is also a black wire connected with them as well I don’t have the thermostat that’s on the wiring diagram Either
I think that SIP do have a bit of history in making changes and revisions to the same model. The thermal cutout should be on or inside the transformer winding, or maybe on the rectifier, to cut out the trigger switch if the machine overheats. Maybe it was optional.
I can see that from the way the tracks and components on your PCB are laid out, the wiring at the green plug cannot match the circuit diagram in post #8 of this thread:
However, from that area we just have to get hold of the two motor wires, red and blue, by cutting them off shortly after they leave the motor. The actual layout at the green plug should not matter, it will not be disturbed there.
The rest of the new wiring that is required is AC mains, found by following the power cable to the On/Off switch and then on to the push-button power range switches.
I can see that from the way the tracks and components on your PCB are laid out, the wiring at the green plug cannot match the circuit diagram in post #8 of this thread:
SIP wirefeed board replacement
Hi, can anyone help? I am replacing the wire feed board in my SIP Autoplus 130 Mig and I have mislaid the diagram I made of the wiring (I removed the board a few weeks ago as the stockist needed to see the old board before a new one was ordered). I especially need to know the location of the 4...
www.mig-welding.co.uk
The rest of the new wiring that is required is AC mains, found by following the power cable to the On/Off switch and then on to the push-button power range switches.
johnrev
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Hi. Sorry to butt in but just wondered if this diagram from an earlier thread about doing this mod might help. I think it shows the right wiring and the positions of the wires on the controller board. I've blotted out the switches on the main transformer input as these look a bit confusing and now show just the two switched mains input wires and the five wires to the transformer. On my Migmate the two wires from switched mains were single black ones and those to the transformer were sheathed so it was obvious which were which and easy to follow them or just connect to them at the switch bank
.
The diagram shows where the mains in wires come from and where thay can be spliced into on the controller board.
BTW I think the wires to the motor on my machine were connected with spade terminals half way along so I just pulled them apart and crimped on terminals for connecting the motor wires to the PWM relay rather than having to cut them.
Sorry if I've confused anything and please follow Eddies's directions.
John
The diagram shows where the mains in wires come from and where thay can be spliced into on the controller board.
BTW I think the wires to the motor on my machine were connected with spade terminals half way along so I just pulled them apart and crimped on terminals for connecting the motor wires to the PWM relay rather than having to cut them.
Sorry if I've confused anything and please follow Eddies's directions.
John
bigkev75
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Hey Eddie,John,
on that wiring diagram on the pcb where the power supply + has been cut and joined this wire is not on my pcb I mean I have the 4 wires on that green connector that wire is blue from my green connector goes to my torch red trigger
on that wiring diagram on the pcb where the power supply + has been cut and joined this wire is not on my pcb I mean I have the 4 wires on that green connector that wire is blue from my green connector goes to my torch red trigger
Last edited:
johnrev
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Sorry Kev I hadn't noticed that on the diagram. It doesn't actually matter because you won't be using that part of the circuit shown anyway. That one seems to be feeding the new power supply to the original speed section on the board (ie not using a new PWM speed controller like you are). You can just ignore it and wire up your bits as Eddie suggested.
Just take wires from the welder power on switch to the laptop unit. Take power out from laptop unit to the PWM board and take output from the PWM board to the relay normally open (NO) contacts.
Splice wires onto the two end single unsheathed wires on the switch bank or the old controller board 'T' and 'R' connectors (whichever is easiest to do) and take these to the relay coil connectors. If you're not certain about the switched power wires you need to connect to then use a meter set to AC volts to the two points and make sure you get nothing with the welder switched on but see 240volts when you pull the trigger.
Connect the two motor wires to the moving contact (common) terminals of the relay.
With the relay pulling in with the trigger the motor will run. Try it at half speed as it may not start till the speed dial is well above the slowest position.
As Eddie said the other two contacts on the relay (normally closed/NC) just need a bit of wire across them so the motor is shorted out when you release the trigger.
Really sorry if I've confused things. I know it's not a great idea for more than one person to chip in on something like this- makes your brain hurt don't it? If in doubt just ignore everything except Eddie's instructions- he'll get you there.
John
Just take wires from the welder power on switch to the laptop unit. Take power out from laptop unit to the PWM board and take output from the PWM board to the relay normally open (NO) contacts.
Splice wires onto the two end single unsheathed wires on the switch bank or the old controller board 'T' and 'R' connectors (whichever is easiest to do) and take these to the relay coil connectors. If you're not certain about the switched power wires you need to connect to then use a meter set to AC volts to the two points and make sure you get nothing with the welder switched on but see 240volts when you pull the trigger.
Connect the two motor wires to the moving contact (common) terminals of the relay.
With the relay pulling in with the trigger the motor will run. Try it at half speed as it may not start till the speed dial is well above the slowest position.
As Eddie said the other two contacts on the relay (normally closed/NC) just need a bit of wire across them so the motor is shorted out when you release the trigger.
Really sorry if I've confused things. I know it's not a great idea for more than one person to chip in on something like this- makes your brain hurt don't it? If in doubt just ignore everything except Eddie's instructions- he'll get you there.
John
johnrev
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Don't worry about the old PCB just fix it up out of the way when all your wiring's done. It will do it's job of switching the weld power on for you.
The rest is easy Kev- it's just getting your head around it all and I haven't helped by butting in.
Once you find the AC switched power for the relay coil it will be easy. Just don't forget it's 240volts and makes you jump if you're not careful.
John
The rest is easy Kev- it's just getting your head around it all and I haven't helped by butting in.
Once you find the AC switched power for the relay coil it will be easy. Just don't forget it's 240volts and makes you jump if you're not careful.
John
johnrev
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You may be able to follow this expertly drafted semi-cad wiring diagram which I have spent many hours carefully drawing.
It isn't to exact scale??? but shows the relay connections etc.
If this produces further headaches or stress please ignore.
John
It isn't to exact scale??? but shows the relay connections etc.
If this produces further headaches or stress please ignore.
John
johnrev
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This is getting silly. I didn't intend to end up writing a novel but just wanted to clarify a couple of things.
Obviously the wiring to the relay needs to be for your relay and what I've drawn is just a representation of it. You need to follow the diagrams for your particular one for where to connect.
The laptop supply has, I think, a coax type power out lead and you need to use your meter to be certain which is positive and negative. I believe centre wire is pos and outer is neg but best you make sure or you may damage the PWM board.
Enough of me.
John
Obviously the wiring to the relay needs to be for your relay and what I've drawn is just a representation of it. You need to follow the diagrams for your particular one for where to connect.
The laptop supply has, I think, a coax type power out lead and you need to use your meter to be certain which is positive and negative. I believe centre wire is pos and outer is neg but best you make sure or you may damage the PWM board.
Enough of me.
John
johnrev
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Well it's layed out a bit differently on the drawing but I think it's basically the same. All you need is those switched mains points and rewire the motor to the relay just the same.
The switched mains goes to the same two points on the PCB (R and T) so you can take a splice from there or the push button array just the same.
Mains in goes through the on/off switch then to R and S so either pick a supply for the laptop psu from the on/off switch or the control board R and S. Make sure you keep the firmness/ integrity of the mains wire connections as these take a fair bit of current when welding.
You're nearly there Kev
John
The switched mains goes to the same two points on the PCB (R and T) so you can take a splice from there or the push button array just the same.
Mains in goes through the on/off switch then to R and S so either pick a supply for the laptop psu from the on/off switch or the control board R and S. Make sure you keep the firmness/ integrity of the mains wire connections as these take a fair bit of current when welding.
You're nearly there Kev
John
Yes, the wires that remain, going back to the PCB, will have the 20 - 30 volts DC welding power on them when the trigger is pressed, so you need to insulate the cut ends. However, this isn't AC mains.
As John said, the old PCB is still needed. We do not use the speed control section of the board any more, but still need the on/off function of the on-board relay. The board can be tucked away somewhere safe, insulated if necessary so that it doesn't short against the chassis.
John, thank you for your diagram in post #114. It looks perfect to me.
In the coloured diagram in post #116, the red wire going to and from the transformer core will be the connections to the thermal overheat cut-out, which will cut the torch trigger circuit if it trips.
