@ SiPMerlin150, running roots with 6013's???

[Jeepster]

SiPMerlin150 said it was naughty to run a root on a corner weld with 2.5mm 6013's...But why??? All I have is 2.5mm 6013's and I have to complete literally loads of corner welds on 6mm plate in the next couple of days so he has got me worried now.

So whats the problem with using 6013's???

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

6013's are good all-rounders. Paticular rods are for paticular jobs but you should be alright.

 

[Jeepster]

Thanks...I am wondering if he means there is a chance of cracking because they are not low Hydrogen?
I am making 100mm wide x 105mm high x 6mm thick adjustable steel "U" brackets which will slide over the top of 80x40x3 RHS (the side rails of my boat trailer) and be clamped in place with 2 M10 carriage bolts through the bottom corners...The top of the brackets will be a capping strip of 6mm steel about 41-42mm wide x 100mm long so there will be external corner welds on both sides of the capping strip the full 100mm width of the bracket and obviously these welds will be subject to some permanent tensile stresses when in use so these will have to be perfect welds and he has me worried that 6013's are somehow not up to the job...

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Hello,

How much tension will these welds be under? 6013 rods are a general purpose rod, and most people who used them swear by them. Their downside is depending on your skill, theres always a chance of getting slag trapped in the weld, especially if you are producing corner to corner welds.

Low hydrogen rods have more stretch tensile strength, and a more fluid slag that will flow easily out of the way, unlike the stiffer slag of 6013's, meaning less chance of inclusions within the weld.

If its critical then i'd use 7016 or 7018's, if not, 6013's are still an excellent rod.

My apologies for worrying you

 

[Jeepster]

Hello,

How much tension will these welds be under? 6013 rods are a general purpose rod, and most people who used them swear by them. Their downside is depending on your skill, theres always a chance of getting slag trapped in the weld, especially if you are producing corner to corner welds.

Low hydrogen rods have more stretch tensile strength, and a more fluid slag that will flow easily out of the way, unlike the stiffer slag of 6013's, meaning less chance of inclusions within the weld.

If its critical then i'd use 7016 or 7018's, if not, 6013's are still an excellent rod.

My apologies for worrying you

No probs...I will use my 6013's and hope for the best.

 

[rob1]

6013 is fine mate
be carefull who you listen to there is a vast wealth of very talented and expirienced welders on here and some who have never even been in a workshop and just read the odd book.nothing wrong with books but you cant beat advise from people who do the job every day.
no ofence intended to anyone atal .

 

[SiPMerlin150]

6013 is fine mate
be carefull who you listen to there is a vast wealth of very talented and expirienced welders on here and some who have never even been in a workshop and just read the odd book.nothing wrong with books but you cant beat advise from people who do the job every day.
no ofence intended to anyone atal .

I concur. I am 24 and currently on an apprenticeship to be a structural welding engineer for a career in australia, seeming i'm moving out there for other reasons next year, i may aswell have a skill before i go.

A lot of my knowledge is from the academy I attend ( all funded by myself )
I'm currently 40% through my NVQ level 2 in 1 1/2 month of a supposedly 12 month course.... I am hammering through it.

Industrial health and safety is also included here. I have my own basic equipment and a lot of my 'skill' is 60% theory 40% practical. I would love to do more practical though.

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

I've been working in a small metalwork shop for nearly 3 years doing general metalwork stuff and have a level 2 NVQ in engineering an fabrication which I did as part of school and have started at a larger place full time as part of my higher college course. I am by no means an expert but I do have a bit of experience. What background do you have rob1 then?

 

[rob1]

hi im aprentice trained budy 21 years on the job 6 years workshop 15 years site .
curently self employed mostly suby welding
do a fair bit for babcock
curent asme 6g
there isnt many codes havnt done over the years in mig tig stik and most materials for different jobs and i defininately do not no it all by a long way .

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

Nice! I'd liek to get somewhere like that eventually, to me its the experience that counts not the bits of paper once you've got the job.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

I've been working in a small metalwork shop for nearly 3 years doing general metalwork stuff and have a level 2 NVQ in engineering an fabrication which I did as part of school and have started at a larger place full time as part of my higher college course. I am by no means an expert but I do have a bit of experience. What background do you have rob1 then?

Hi lawnmower guy, this is what i'm currently doing, around 30-40% through at the moment, and at the end i will get coded in a BS 4872, with mma, but i'll be doing nvq level 2 mig, and tig and mma.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Nice! I'd liek to get somewhere like that eventually, to me its the experience that counts not the bits of paper once you've got the job.

I agree there also. I know its just all to prove to the assessors that you can put into words your method of working safely, your health and safety knowledge etc. It does count for a large portion of your work, but as you are doing it, you can't help but think ' i should be welding things together, not writing on paper like it was back in school'.

 

[snowcat]

jeepster have you looked at the electrode reference chart?, I'm sure for your purposes a 6013 will be fine and I would hate to think how many tons of them I have run over the years, for all manner of jobs..

 

[Rrunnach]

Hello,

Low hydrogen rods have more stretch tensile strength, and a more fluid slag that will flow easily out of the way, unlike the stiffer slag of 6013's

Part of flux make up on a lo-hi rod purpose it to mop up hydrogen gas within weld pool.

Why would you want slag to "flow easily out the way"? One point of flux is, it free's area of oxides till weld cools, resulting with slag.

Cheers.

 

[SiPMerlin150]

Part of flux make up on a lo-hi rod purpose it to mop up hydrogen gas within weld pool.

Why would you want slag to "flow easily out the way"? One point of flux is, it free's area of oxides till weld cools, resulting with slag.

Cheers.

Well, how does it fare when using them in a vertical up position of weld? There will be a slag covering, but a lot will follow the course of gravity downwards, but the slag tends to freeze quickly on these rods anyway.

 

[snowcat]

Well, how does it fare when using them in a vertical up position of weld? There will be a slag covering, but a lot will follow the course of gravity downwards, but the slag tends to freeze quickly on these rods anyway.

A 6013 can have a fast freeze characteristic for up hand work (AWS no.s only tell part of the story), with a correct technique your no more likely to get inclusions using a 6013, or 7018...

As said the slag theres for a reason.

 

[Rrunnach]

As Matt has stated, it is all down to technique, I can root pipe (any position) with 6010/11, cap with 6013/70**. Root/cap 6013 same 70**.

I still do not understand what you mean, when you stated "flow easily out the way"?

 

[SiPMerlin150]

As Matt has stated, it is all down to technique, I can root pipe (any position) with 6010/11, cap with 6013/70**. Root/cap 6013 same 70**.

I still do not understand what you mean, when you stated "flow easily out the way"?

Imagine a vertical up butt weld, in 10mm plate, bevelled at 45 degrees with an open root of 2.5mm, using a 2.5mm 6013 electrode at 75 amps would have me sometimes get slag trapped inside welds as i burned in the root pass, most noticeably on the backside of the joint. I don't know if it may be my electrodes, but my 6013's develop a thick almost 'snotty' slag which seems to freeze at a fairly quick rate , so can have the potential to become trapped for me, wheres I find that when i use my esab/filarc 7016's, the slag is very fluid, with a very good distinguishment between the weld pool and the slag.

This means that the molten slag will easily run back behind the rod and freeze to the freshly made weld. The slag is also a lot thinner and easier to chip off.

I keep my rod angle at 10-15 degrees horizontal from the plate.

Hope this clarifies what i mean

 

[SiPMerlin150]

A 6013 can have a fast freeze characteristic for up hand work (AWS no.s only tell part of the story), with a correct technique your no more likely to get inclusions using a 6013, or 7018...

As said the slag theres for a reason.

I have a lincoln electric 'weldability' hand book with its electrodes all put into certain classes:

Fast Freeze
Fast Fill..

etc..

 

[Rrunnach]

Imagine a vertical up butt weld, in 10mm plate, bevelled at 45 degrees with an open root of 2.5mm, using a 2.5mm 6013 electrode at 75 amps would have me sometimes get slag trapped inside welds as i burned in the root pass, most noticeably on the backside of the joint. I don't know if it may be my electrodes, but my 6013's develop a thick almost 'snotty' slag which seems to freeze at a fairly quick rate , so can have the potential to become trapped for me, wheres I find that when i use my esab/filarc 7016's, the slag is very fluid, with a very good distinguishment between the weld pool and the slag.

This means that the molten slag will easily run back behind the rod and freeze to the freshly made weld. The slag is also a lot thinner and easier to chip off.

I keep my rod angle at 10-15 degrees horizontal from the plate.

Hope this clarifies what i mean

A case of you having to perfect your technique. Say you have a similar joint type as described above, 6013 all that is available, also, suitable rod for end product, what would you do?