Snap On 2135 Manual and wire feed motor voltage

[Hutcho]

David , you need to find out if that’s the correct value for it , I think from what I’ve just found 2k is right , as a111r said can you weld with it ? Do you get the nice sizzle

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Thanks Hutcho

I will put it back together and try it and see.

Thanks

David

 

[Hutcho]

Other models use the same board as they mainly cebora rebranded
Cebora pocket turbo 130
Boc 130
Snap on 130
Taskmaster , these all use the same parts , personally I don’t like them - I’ve just literally put a Clarke 135 inside that model of yours and it’s so much better

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello Hutcho and A111r

Thanks for your time and all the advice.

I tried and can weld with it. It arcs on all the settings.

I will measure the voltages for the combinations of min / max and 1 / 2 as I am unsure which do what at present, then I will try to set the wire speed and see how it goes.

Thanks for the information on the similar models that share the same parts.

Thanks again for your help.

David

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello Hutcho and a111r

Thanks for all your help yesterday, I appreciate it.

One last question if thats OK?

I measured the open circuit welding voltage between the torch tip and earth lead for the various combinations of the power settings.

The voltages are:

1 + min / wire speed 5 = 22.5v
1 + min / wire speed 10 = 26.8v

1 + max / wire speed 5 = 24.8v
1 + max / wire speed 10 = 29.2v

2 + min / wire speed 5 = 27.6v
2 + min / wire speed 10 = 32.8v

2 + max / wire speed 5 = 30.1v
2 + max / wire speed 10 =37.0v

Can you advise if this looks about right?

Many thanks

David

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello

Not sure if I should start a new post for this but I have got my older welder out of the shed, it is an old Cebora Micro mig.

I have not tested it yet but thought I would read the power voltages whilst I was checking them on the Snap On one.

The welder has four power settings. I am guessing the readings are not correct and there is an problem with the machine?

They are.

Setting 1 / no trigger = 43.6v
Setting 1 / pressing trigger = 41.6v

Setting 2 / no trigger = 48.5v
Setting 2 / pressing trigger = 46.2v

Setting 3 / no trigger = 47.3v
Setting 3 / pressing trigger = 45.4v

Setting 4 / no trigger = 54.1v
Setting 4 / pressing trigger = 51.9v

Any advice appreciated

David

 

[Hutcho]

Hello Hutcho and a111r

Thanks for all your help yesterday, I appreciate it.

One last question if thats OK?

I measured the open circuit welding voltage between the torch tip and earth lead for the various combinations of the power settings.

The voltages are:

1 + min / wire speed 5 = 22.5v
1 + min / wire speed 10 = 26.8v

1 + max / wire speed 5 = 24.8v
1 + max / wire speed 10 = 29.2v

2 + min / wire speed 5 = 27.6v
2 + min / wire speed 10 = 32.8v

2 + max / wire speed 5 = 30.1v
2 + max / wire speed 10 =37.0v

Can you advise if this looks about right?

Many thanks

David

Looks high on lower settings - can you recheck with no wire speed ? They is a data plate on back that should guide you

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello Hutcho

Thanks again for your time and help.

When I tried welding yesterday the power did seem high on the lower settings.

I have re checked the voltages with no wire speed.

They are still high I think:

1 / Min = 22.3v
1 / Max = 24.6v

2/ Min = 27.4v
2 / Max = 30.6v

I had not noticed the data plate as there was a bracket for the gas bottle covering it. Thanks for pointing that out, I can see it now and the voltage readings do seem high.

Thanks

David

 

[a111r]

Re. the Cebora Micro mig, the voltage range is high but that could be normal.
Looks like it has a permanently live torch, too. I know the old Cebora Pocket Mig did.

Still don't understand what's going on with that wire feed speed. Wire speed settings shouldn't affect the OCV..?

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello a111r

Thanks for your reply and time.

Sorry for talking about two different welders just thought I might as well see if I can get one to work properly.

The Micro Mig is badged Special Car which I believe is the company that became Cebora.

I thought it was odd on the Micro Mig the voltage for setting 3 was lower than that for setting 2?

I wil set it up tomorrow and see if it welds.

With the Micro Mig wire Speed does not affect the OCV but for some reason it does effect it on the Snap On 2135 which also has the higher voltages than expected on the lower settings.

Thanks again for your help.

David

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello a111r

Re Cebora Mighty Mig

Sorry for another question just looking at the data plate on the Cebora Mighty Mig:

Am I right looking at this then the values below which I recorded are too high?

Setting 1 / no trigger = 43.6v
Setting 1 / pressing trigger = 41.6v

Setting 2 / no trigger = 48.5v
Setting 2 / pressing trigger = 46.2v

Setting 3 / no trigger = 47.3v
Setting 3 / pressing trigger = 45.4v

Setting 4 / no trigger = 54.1v
Setting 4 / pressing trigger = 51.9v

Will leave you in peace now.

Thanks again for your help.

David

 

[a111r]

No probs.
Yes I believe so, as the plate says Uo = 17v to 25.5v
Try cleaning the two rocker switches terminals / spades.

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello a111r

Thanks for the reply.

That makes sense then that they are too high.

The Micro mig has one multi position voltage selector switch.

It has an off position then 1, 2, 3 and 4.
It looks like the original switch.

I will take it out and see if I can clean it or possibly source a suitable replacement.

Regarding the higher readings for the lower settings on the Snap On 2135

Here is the data plate, bit confused by Uo on this.

The reading I got were:

1 / Min = 22.3v
1 / Max = 24.6v

2/ Min = 27.4v
2 / Max = 30.6v

This does have the rocker switches so I will see if cleaning them makes a difference.

Thanks again for your help and information.

David

 

[a111r]

Interesting. Yes, on the Micro mig, remove the cover and check the switches and any bolted joints etc for corrosion or bad joints.

The Snap-on readings above now look OK, despite the data plate! What was the story there - why was the board repaired?
It seems that it wasn't done correctly, if the wire feed is behaving badly like that?

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello a111r

The potentiometer was broken (could be continually rotated) so I sent the wire feed pcb off for repair to have it replaced.
I have since had this problem with wire feed being very slow at all but the settings 9 and 10 where it speeds up dramatically.
I would of thought this would be a more gradual increase in speed.
We tested the potentiometer and that seems to be working as expected.

This is when I measured the voltages at the motor connections with and without the motor connected at the 10 settings which were:

1 - 1.625v
2 - 2.20v
3 - 2.94v
4 - 3.64v
5 - 4.44v
6 - 5.32v
7 - 6.39v
8 - 7.78v
9 - 10.52v
10 - 20.3v

I am not sure this is correct with the big jump in voltage at the end.

I was wondering about what you said about adjusting the wire speed should not affect the OCV.
I ran the tests again at wired speed 0 and 10 and the wire feed adjustment is increasing the OCV on all setting combinations.

1 + min / wire speed 0 = 22.3v
1 + min / wire speed 10 = 26.8v

1 + max / wire speed 0 = 24.6v
1 + max / wire speed 10 = 29.2v

2 + min / wire speed 0 = 27.4v
2 + min / wire speed 10 = 32.8v

2 + max / wire speed 0 = 30.6v
2 + max / wire speed 10 =37.0v

When testing the welder the lower voltage settings did seem too high / hot.

I guess the issues are why is the wire feed adjustment increasing the OCV and why is the wire feed speed voltage not increasing smoothly?
Also could these two issues be related and is the welding voltage too high on the lower settings?
Wonder if another component on the wire feed pcb could cause the issues?

Thanks again for all your help.

David

 

[a111r]

Most odd, Dave.
You need an expert I think: @eddie49

I was testing my latest repaired machine's OCV tonight. I thought of this post, so I varied the wire speed during the test and it made no OCV difference, as I expected.

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Thanks for the reply a111r and for taking the time to test your machine. I appreciate it.

I think we have identified the issues.

Maybe @eddie49 might see the post and offer some help.

Thanks again for all your help.

David

 

[eddie49]

This is all very odd and unusual ( and also confusing since you keep swapping between 2 different machines! ).
See also this si
I agree with the previous comments that altering wirespeed should not change welding OCV.
Additionally, the OCVs seem to be rather high. However, the data plate shown in post #33 admits to a high OCV of 32v to 50v, which plunges to 15v to 19v when on-load.
A few ideas regarding "high OCV":

- are you measuring OCV with a DC voltmeter from the tip of the MIG torch to the clamp on the work return cable?
- do you have another meter to confirm the readings? ( especially an old-fashioned analogue meter )

There may be a shorted diode in the rectifier. Please post a photo of the rectifier ( large finned aluminium component ), and also trace the thick secondary windings on the main transformer to check if there are only two wires, which go to the rectifier, or three wires. The third would be a centre-tap on the transformer winding, and would connect to the inductor ( choke ) or to the MIG torch cable.

Regarding wirepeed and voltage:

- repeat the "increasing wirepeed increases OCV" tests but with one lead disconnected from the motor.

The speed control function on the PCB may use a power transistor or a Triac to drive the motor. This would be a rectangular black or grey plastic component, with a metal tab ( possibly mounted on a heatsink ), like this:

If readable, please let us know the part number marked on that component. If it is a Triac, then it is possible that voltage feedback ( back-emf ) from the motor is affecting the OCV.

Finally, is there actually anything wrong with these two machines? How do they perform when welding, on metal from 1mm to 4mm thick? Are you using solid wire with gas, or gasless flux-core wire?

 

[Lemondropcreative]

Hello eddie49

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.

Sorry for confusing things by talking about two different welders and my lack of knowledge on either.

The information below is all relating to the Snap Om 2135 welder.

I am measuring OCV with a DC voltmeter from the tip of the MIG torch to the earth clamp on the work return cable.
I am pressing the trigger to record the voltages whilst adjusting wire feed speed. It is at the top of the wire feed speed scale that the OCV increases.
I have tried a second digital meter to confirm the readings but don’t have an old-fashioned analogue meter to hand.

Regarding wire speed and voltage:

It may not be an issue but the OCV increases on the highest wire feed setting only as below:

1 + min / wire speed 0 = 22.3v
1 + min / wire speed 10 = 26.8v

1 + max / wire speed 0 = 24.6v
1 + max / wire speed 10 = 29.2v

2 + min / wire speed 0 = 27.4v
2 + min / wire speed 10 = 32.8v

2 + max / wire speed 0 = 30.6v
2 + max / wire speed 10 =37.0v


I repeated the "increasing wirepeed increases OCV" tests but with one lead disconnected from the motor.

The voltages only increase by 0.1v on all settings.

1 + min / wire speed 0 = 22.3v
1 + min / wire speed 10 = 22.4v

1 + max / wire speed 0 = 24.6v
1 + max / wire speed 10 = 24.7v

2 + min / wire speed 0 = 27.4v
2 + min / wire speed 10 = 27.5v

2 + max / wire speed 0 = 30.6v
2 + max / wire speed 10 =30.7v



The thick secondary windings on the main transformer to the rectifier are as below:

The PCB does use the component like the one in your picture.

The details of the component are:
104C433
TIC116D
PHILIPNES

Finally the older welder works OK, I was just looking into recording the output voltages at the different power settings. I know now that recording the OCV is not really helpful as the voltage will drop under load and it is these voltages that would be more useful.

I use argoshield gas with both welders.

I started the Snap On 2135 thread as I thought the wire feed speed was very slow unless it was turned up very high. I have since learnt the wire feed speed is not that linear and most of the speed increases at the top end off the pot.
I also thought the welder output voltage was too high on lower power settings, I am unsure if this is the case but at this point I measured the OCV for the various power settings as below.

1 / Min = 22.3v
1 / Max = 24.6v

2/ Min = 27.4v
2 / Max = 30.6v

It was at this point I noticed the OCV on all settings increased on the maximum wire feed speed setting. When I mentioned this it was pointed out that the wire feed speed should not affect the OCV.

Thanks to your advice I now know the OCV does not increase when adjusting the wire feed speed to its highest setting when the motor is disconected.

I don't want to waste yours or anyone else time I am just trying to understand why this is the case and if it is an issue.

Thanks again for helping.

David

 

[Hutcho]

Looks ok connection wise , sorry about darkness of pic not working on anything tonight bugger to it .