- Thread starter Kernite
- Start date
Hi Guys
Sorry I was not on last night - went out for a few jars
First things first - I am a complete novice and I suspect to get better on the spraying I have to practice - but I dont want to get through all my expensive paint just practicing on the garage door
The chassis I did with chassis black - in sheen finish and that came out OK apart from the odd matt area - see pic)
The QAD Matt enamel I am practicing with and which will form a base coat on the landy contains Xylene and I was told to use cellulose thinners with it at 10% max. The thinners I got from my local motorfactors I was told was suitable and is Tetrosyl Standard thinners and contains Toluene, Xylene and Methanol -for professional use only
I misled you on the top coat - the Polyurthethane Enamel I will use ordinary white spirit as per manufacturers instructions.
The one I am practicing with I have diluted about 5 -10% with the standard thinners (was not that accurate with my measuring) and I get areas that are dry and powdery and some that are probably ok.
The paints comes from a reputable Land Paint guy.
Assuming I am using the right thinner for the right paint - it seems from comments that I should be using between 10-15%. Does the dry powdery surface suggest not enough thinners or gun technique.
Many thanks
Jonathan
Sorry I was not on last night - went out for a few jars
First things first - I am a complete novice and I suspect to get better on the spraying I have to practice - but I dont want to get through all my expensive paint just practicing on the garage door
The chassis I did with chassis black - in sheen finish and that came out OK apart from the odd matt area - see pic)The QAD Matt enamel I am practicing with and which will form a base coat on the landy contains Xylene and I was told to use cellulose thinners with it at 10% max. The thinners I got from my local motorfactors I was told was suitable and is Tetrosyl Standard thinners and contains Toluene, Xylene and Methanol -for professional use only
I misled you on the top coat - the Polyurthethane Enamel I will use ordinary white spirit as per manufacturers instructions.
The one I am practicing with I have diluted about 5 -10% with the standard thinners (was not that accurate with my measuring) and I get areas that are dry and powdery and some that are probably ok.
The paints comes from a reputable Land Paint guy.
Assuming I am using the right thinner for the right paint - it seems from comments that I should be using between 10-15%. Does the dry powdery surface suggest not enough thinners or gun technique.
Many thanks
Jonathan
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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I've been up against this one where the tin has said use xylene thinners, and the paintshop had no idea which one it was. I think I ended up using synthetic thinners which is much slower drying. Ask the supplier - it sucks when you have the wrong thinner! Edit - link from Pedro might be something. Cellulose thinner is very fast drying.
Dry powder could be thinners evaporating before the paint hits the surface (gun too far away from work), or could be overspray (too much pressure possibly coupled with over-thick paint). For cheap guns you might find slightly more thinner than recommended will help.
Dry powder could be thinners evaporating before the paint hits the surface (gun too far away from work), or could be overspray (too much pressure possibly coupled with over-thick paint). For cheap guns you might find slightly more thinner than recommended will help.
you have to make your passes uniform,i.e. same speed. if you dont it will never be right.
to this day istill hum,sing to myself to get a rhythem to work too. silly,but it works.
malcolm has it right.
you was not clear in what you was using. but now can see from above post.
most people on starting spraying,wave the gun all over the place.
get that sorted and you'll be ok.
dont be scared to put it on,if you are it will be dry.good luck.
to this day istill hum,sing to myself to get a rhythem to work too. silly,but it works.
malcolm has it right.
you was not clear in what you was using. but now can see from above post.
most people on starting spraying,wave the gun all over the place.
get that sorted and you'll be ok.
dont be scared to put it on,if you are it will be dry.good luck.
sprayerDrew
Perfession not a hobby !
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hi mate im a sprayer and spray everyday in a bodyshopin my expirience i will only stick with well known guns! as they will always give you top preformance and will last a life time!
finish wise you should consider these points!
Paint thickness air pressure and spraying distance are the key to a good finish, not forgetting correct gun setup!
i will not spray any top coat above or below 2bar! obviously unless doing a very small accurate blowin.
as for your paint i dont like cellulose! the only good thing about it is it dries very fast and polishes up like glass.
Cellulose is hard to get a good finish as it drop glosses and will sink so in time it may show up any repairs!
A 2k paint will be better like cellulose it is direct gloss but has better properties and if prep work is done correct it wont sink for years!
Paint wastage will occur if you are spraying too high pressure getting blowback as the paint hits the panel and attomizes poorly and bounces back and possibly if you ar using anything above 1.4 fluid tip as it will chuck th paint out !
hope this helps !
sprayerDrew
Perfession not a hobby !
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the snooper
getting older by the day
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i will not spray any top coat above or below 2bar!
that is a low pressure 29psi what gun are you using?
sprayerDrew
Perfession not a hobby !
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hi mate i have 5 guns ! 2devilbiss 1 iwata and 2sata! hvlp(high volume low pressure) 2bar is perfect if you tried basecoating more than that you would get striping! that the standard pressure in the trade for top coat with modern finishing guns
Drew
Drew
sprayerDrew
Perfession not a hobby !
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hi let me just explain!
different paints need different thinning ratios!
depending on how thick the paint is before anything is added
e.g cellulose 50/50
2k 20% ish
waterbase 15-30% ish
it mainly depends an the user too!
like if you mix lacquer via the product data sheet it may be as thick as cyrup lol
Also different thinners for conditions and size of job
Slow medium fast
different paints need different thinning ratios!
depending on how thick the paint is before anything is added
e.g cellulose 50/50
2k 20% ish
waterbase 15-30% ish
it mainly depends an the user too!
like if you mix lacquer via the product data sheet it may be as thick as cyrup lol
Also different thinners for conditions and size of job
Slow medium fast
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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Could we focus on helping out Kernite in this thread - I'm not sure he's completely sorted yet, and I feel we are fast moving off topic.
Your work deserves it's own thread sprayerDrew. Looks fabulous (apart from the choice of car.
)
Also thinning ratio depends on the gun as well as the user for us DIYers. No idea which gun Kernite has, but have you ever tried spraying with a gun that came in a family pack of air tools for £20? They can be quite sensitive.
Your work deserves it's own thread sprayerDrew. Looks fabulous (apart from the choice of car.
)Also thinning ratio depends on the gun as well as the user for us DIYers. No idea which gun Kernite has, but have you ever tried spraying with a gun that came in a family pack of air tools for £20? They can be quite sensitive.
sprayerDrew
Perfession not a hobby !
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haha i did start with a family pack and i dont think my boss would allow it in the shop lol! if it was me no matter how expirienced i would stick with quality known paint lets face it thats what you will be proudly looking at every morning you see the car and for all the hard work you want it to last
the snooper
getting older by the day
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ha bloke next door got one of those packs and couldnt get the gun to spray so without thinking i stuck it onto my airline and bang paint eveywhere it was a pressurised gun not syphon not to mention the once flat botton of the pot was now a convex dome.
well thats something you only ever do once
well thats something you only ever do once
the snooper
getting older by the day
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Thanks guys
All helpful stuff in that it 1. highlights all the variables I need to be aware of and 2. the need to practice.
I feel my distance and speed is about right altho the video on the Paint section show faster movement than I go.
The gun Comaria is Italian and thats about all I know about it - but it looks reasonably well made. The nozzle is 1.5. I may take it to my local body shop guy and ask for his comments and perhaps borrow something off him to compare.
Now the show of ignorance - whats 2K?
I trust the guy supplying the paint as suitable for the job.
Thanks
Jonathan
All helpful stuff in that it 1. highlights all the variables I need to be aware of and 2. the need to practice.
I feel my distance and speed is about right altho the video on the Paint section show faster movement than I go.
The gun Comaria is Italian and thats about all I know about it - but it looks reasonably well made. The nozzle is 1.5. I may take it to my local body shop guy and ask for his comments and perhaps borrow something off him to compare.
Now the show of ignorance - whats 2K?
I trust the guy supplying the paint as suitable for the job.
Thanks
Jonathan
the snooper
getting older by the day
- Messages
- 21,063
- Location
- Hull UK
2k is 2 pack paint but to use it you really need an air fed mask as it can cause you to have asthma.
that is what the professionals use in the body shops very good paint and machineable.
not wanting to insult you but i would get another gun that one doesnt look as though its up to much have a look here and see the difference the gun you have looks very old
that is what the professionals use in the body shops very good paint and machineable.
not wanting to insult you but i would get another gun that one doesnt look as though its up to much have a look here and see the difference the gun you have looks very old
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Seriously, throw that gun away, quite honestly they are the worst of the worst!
Even upgrading to something like the 02132 in this PDF will give a marked improvement.
I had a 'family pack' gun as Malcolm calls it and tbh, it is utter rubbish.
I bought a SIP gun similar to the 02132 one and although it's probably nowhere near DeVilbiss quality, it was nowhere near DeVilbiss price either.
Certainly a major step up from those multipack ones.
As snooper says, 2k at home is a definite no-no, it'll give you way more than just asthma!
Even upgrading to something like the 02132 in this PDF will give a marked improvement.
I had a 'family pack' gun as Malcolm calls it and tbh, it is utter rubbish.
I bought a SIP gun similar to the 02132 one and although it's probably nowhere near DeVilbiss quality, it was nowhere near DeVilbiss price either.
Certainly a major step up from those multipack ones.
As snooper says, 2k at home is a definite no-no, it'll give you way more than just asthma!
Postscript
Hi
I have been leant a professional spray gun (Anest Iwata - see pic) by my local body shop (to whom I will be eternally grateful) and what a difference it makes. I now get a wide fan so 50% overlap is possible - I was only getting about 2" fan with my old gun which produced tiger stripes and overlapping was difficult.
If I change the horns I can now see the fan changing 90 degrees whereas before nothing much changed which is why I was unable to work out which way to have the horns.
When I change the feed screw I can actually see the spray pattern changing whereas before nothing much happened.
So setting up is now possible. I now just need to find the right paint mix for optimal finish.
I'm now raiding the piggy bank to see what is the best gun I can afford. The one I am using is gravity fed - which is better, or what are the pluses and minuses of gravity versus suction guns.
Many thanks
Jonathan
Hi
I have been leant a professional spray gun (Anest Iwata - see pic) by my local body shop (to whom I will be eternally grateful) and what a difference it makes. I now get a wide fan so 50% overlap is possible - I was only getting about 2" fan with my old gun which produced tiger stripes and overlapping was difficult.
If I change the horns I can now see the fan changing 90 degrees whereas before nothing much changed which is why I was unable to work out which way to have the horns.
When I change the feed screw I can actually see the spray pattern changing whereas before nothing much happened.
So setting up is now possible. I now just need to find the right paint mix for optimal finish.
I'm now raiding the piggy bank to see what is the best gun I can afford. The one I am using is gravity fed - which is better, or what are the pluses and minuses of gravity versus suction guns.
Many thanks
Jonathan
