Tailstock morse taper not gripping.

[dan.taylor.1]

It’s a funny old game tapers. The tailstock looks to be in reasonable condition, no major damage can be seen in the photos.

Id suggest blue checking the drill, but really hammer it home. Then blue check something else to prove. Remember the drill doesn’t drive off the tang, it’s only there to assist with removal of the drill.
If you’re finding other drills or centres are gripping fine in the tailstock it may just be an issue with that particular drill. They aren’t all perfect.
The advise to hammer it home is good, get a copper hammer and give the drill a good whack into the taper. Tapers need to be driven together.



I do have a hand reamer and machine reamer if you’re struggling but I would only give it a light lick!!! If you don’t have a rigid set-up you could do more damage than good… you’d also need to make sure there’s enough clearance at the end, items will sit deeper if you remove material (obviously)

View attachment 397143

Where abouts in W - Yorkshire are you?

 

[Rrobson]

@dan.taylor.1 pontefract

 

[dave h 2]

An MT4 should grip very well.
You have other drills that fit the taper fine and don't slip, That would tell me the new drill is at fault.
Tapers are quoted over longer distances than required and so one mt4 may go further into the socket than another using a different part of the taper and still be to spec.
I think your new drill may have been prevented from seating by the tang, which in turn may only need shortening to fit.
Is there no self eject on the Triumph?

 

[dan.taylor.1]

An MT4 should grip very well.
You have other drills that fit the taper fine and don't slip, That would tell me the new drill is at fault.
Tapers are quoted over longer distances than required and so one mt4 may go further into the socket than another using a different part of the taper and still be to spec.
I think your new drill may have been prevented from seating by the tang, which in turn may only need shortening to fit.
Is there no self eject on the Triumph?

Several different drills spun so u think its the tang area damage in the barrel that's the fault as non tang tools (centres etc) seem fine so the taper must be pretty decent.

The tang on the new drill sits halfway or more into the tang slot for ejecting with a drift and unless you wind the barrel all the way back to eject there's nothing to get in the way, except the burr in the pics.

I'm going to try blue the tapers tomorrow and see what's what there, and clean that burr up somehow, really long carbide burr maybe? Or through the tang slots?

 

[Brad93]

The tang shouldn't be doing any holding.

You need to blue a good morse taper and transfer that to the barrel.

Your barrel is probably worn

 

[dan.taylor.1]

The tang shouldn't be doing any holding.

You need to blue a good morse taper and transfer that to the barrel.

Your barrel is probably worn

Just to clarify what type of blue should I use. I have some dykem, micrometer blue and sharpies..

 

[Johnnybravo]

Look at how the drill has been sharpened and the type of material you are drilling into. If you are drilling into a pilot hole that is too big it will also cause the drill to snatch, pull forward and spin in the tail stock.Just because it’s a new drill doesn’t mean it’s sharpened properly. Ground too aggressively and it will bite and snatch like a cucking funt…

 

[Scalarocco]

Just to clarify what type of blue should I use. I have some dykem, micrometer blue and sharpies..

Micrometer blue is the stuff you need. Don't trowel it on. Only a very very thin smear of it is needed.

 

[addjunkie]

What speed was the machine running at, what lube were you usining. Is the drill sharp. Id say going from 1/2 inch to 11/2 inch is a big jump, were cuttings coming off both sides of the drill?

 

[dan.taylor.1]

What speed was the machine running at, what lube were you usining. Is the drill sharp. Id say going from 1/2 inch to 11/2 inch is a big jump, were cuttings coming off both sides of the drill?

150rpm maybe. Not 100% but plenty slow enough. Others on here have said to try minimum for the Web which is about 1/4", the lathe can handle it no problem, doesn't even sound different ploughing a big drill in. And yes, perfect curls both sides.

 

[addjunkie]

150rpm maybe. Not 100% but plenty slow enough. Others on here have said to try minimum for the Web which is about 1/4", the lathe can handle it no problem, doesn't even sound different ploughing a big drill in. And yes, perfect curls both sides.

In my last machine Ihad loads of bother with spinning drills once upto about 20mm, so just used to bore stuff. Morse taper was damaged, never managed to clean up very well with a reamer.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Micrometer blue is the stuff you need. Don't trowel it on. Only a very very thin smear of it is needed.

Just along the taper or the whole thing?

 

[addjunkie]

Just along the taper or the whole thing?

Id do the whole thing, try a few different ones, see how they compare, clean inside between attempts

 

[ukracer]

The tang shouldn't be doing any holding.

You need to blue a good morse taper and transfer that to the barrel.

Your barrel is probably worn

This is my feeling. But the drill he photographed clearly had damage in the slot and the end of the tang.
He should be able to see through the slot and ensure the tang is parallel, so it should not be holding the drill out.
To test it I would be brutal. Lump of wood and a lump hammer.
Knock the drill in and try cutting. If it spins try other drills.
If it still spins as you say its probably worn.

But the damaged tang and slot together with a non tanged drill working fine pushed me in that direction.

 

[dave h 2]

It's got self ejection, the tang slot is just decoration, why would you beat on the tailstock with a hammer and MT wedge unless you seriously get off on resetting the tailstock back on centre every time.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

It's got self ejection, the tang slot is just decoration, why would you beat on the tailstock with a hammer and MT wedge unless you seriously get off on resetting the tailstock back on centre every time.

I don't beat on the tailstock, just wound it out to see what was going on.

 

[ukracer]

I don't beat on the tailstock, just wound it out to see what was going on.

I guess the post was aimed at my reply to be fair.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Right, definitely need to ream the taper. Not bad but missing more on one side for sure.

Plenty of room for it to go down a bit, drills I tried yesterday have a similar amount of taper left and the hole at the end of the barrel is 31mm, mt4 maxes at 32mm I think.

Tang is only half way into the slot with this Arbor.

Blue on the Arbor after I knocked it in with a copper hammer.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

I have also cleaned the burr off with a ball end carbide burr through the slots. Nothing to stop the tang going in now, and the taper finishes about 1/2" before the damaged bit so shouldn't affect anything.

 

[Rrobson]

Although the blue is slightly on the thick side, I don’t think there’s a lot wrong with that, you’ve got plenty of contact along the length of the taper. Yes it could be better, but doesn’t look like it should cause major issues. You could do with a lapping tool to finish that, probably only need a gnat’s whisker out of it. I should post a picture of the tail stock on my lathe, it’s a wonder it grips anything!
I’d be looking to check the drill that you used beforehand, there may be an issue with that…