Thoughts on mist coolant for machining - Editted MQL not Mist

[m_c]

Just seen this thread.

I had a DIY MQL setup on my old Novamill, and it worked well. The system is still bolted to the bench, as I never sold it with the mill, although it's never been used since.
It was good enough to clear small chips and keep things well enough lubricated to avoid chips sticking, but heavier machining I used to have to give things an occasional blast with the air line.

I can't remember where I found the instructions, but it explained the key design to avoid the fluid atomising.

Just found the instructions I roughly followed - https://www.cnczone.com/forums/unca...nes/102934-built-fog-less-coolant-mister.html
And I bought the coolant from John Neale Ltd, but having just checked their website, it isn't working, and I have no idea whether that is a temporary or permanent thing.
Their website is/was www.johnnealeltd.co.uk and the product was Envirocut SE10. A quick search shows it available from https://www.oil-shop.co.uk/product/envirocut-se10/ however 20 litres might be excessive for home use! John Neale used to sell it in litre containers.

 

[Hood]

I set one up a while ago when I was machining some top clamps for bikes, works well but uses a lot of air. The air could be turned down if not needing to blast the alu away but then I am just as well using the flood in that case.

 

[northwest]

I have one of these that I have seldom used but I will be moving it to the "new" Denford Starmill (that I now have working, yay!):

https://fogbuster.com/

It works well though the correct lubricant is bloody fortunes from Rocol.

 

[ATGNI]

Hopefully first test this weekend. The hardest part so far has been trying to get all the various types and sizes of tubing to all fit together. I think it should work there isn’t really anything to go wrong. Hopefully the peristaltic pump will allow accurate dosing with oil without adjusting. Haven’t found supplier of suitable coolant yet so first test will be using standard soluble oil

 

[Hood]

...soluble oil

That is all I use, my normal Rocol V-Cut SS

 

[500e]

I've always thought a tractor fuel lift pump could be handy for this sort of application.
Just needs some sort of cam or pushrod to operate it.

A modified wiper motor with a eccentric tube to work the arm

 

[ukracer]

A modified wiper motor with a eccentric tube to work the arm

That's sounds like a good call.

 

[500e]

We used that set up to run cutting lube when I was into guns we made a shot gun honing tool using a much modded Delapena cylinder honing drive and modified adjustable hone, cut the standard hone (9inch) and let in a length of Silver steel with the adjuster slot machined in, overall extended to 38 inches long, very successful, the hone carrier end could be changed to allow for diameter honed from 4 bore to 20 with the diamond stones the finish was like glass.
Made the drive wheel 2mm flat fitting WM shaft with a tube welded on off center pushed operating arm as it went round speed controller to vary delivery, can still remember the smell of the Delapena cutting fluid
A bit like this (Ebay photo USA)
It was a vertical tool the head fixed and we held barrels then if they snagged for any reason it spun in your hand, also you could feel any variation in the tube.

 

[ATGNI]

That is all I use, my normal Rocol V-Cut SS

I haven’t found a datasheet for the stuff I’m using but it looks like what I would call soluble oil. I mentioned earlier in the thread about some vegetable oil based lubricants that are designed for mist application I have not found a U.K. supplier yet for small quantities but that would be my plan. Not sure what effect the viscosity will have. I tend to run my lubricant mixed with little water so it sticks and apply using a brush. looking at video online it looks like the correct mix should have much more water. I just don’t like the idea of having water on my machines due to the possibility of rusting. Out of interest is there any oil based lubricants that don’t need water this would be more useful for my lathe that does have flood coolant.

 

[500e]

Dont know enough / anything about cutting fluids but the Delapena fluids did not use water but it was formulated for Honing
Try here

Industrial :: Metal Working Fluids - Buy lubricants from Morris Lubricants

Oils, lubricants, lubrication, diesel engine oil, classic car oil, industrial lubricants and associated products from a leading UK manufacturer tradition in excellence since 1869.

www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk

 

[ATGNI]

I think they may call it neat cutting oil if water not added. Perhaps some can confirm that

 

[Hood]

I used to have a 20l drum of neat cutting oil that was used in multi spindles, not seen it for a while but should be somewhere

 

[ATGNI]

Making progress and making my own PCB as I just enjoy the craft. Tried a new technique using a laser but not sure it’s any easier than other methods.

 

[pressbrake1]

Bad news for non enclosed systems as it atomises it and you breath it in.

I tried it and it was awful , I was coughing my lungs out and having a 20kw compressor running made it even more unpleasant !

 

[ATGNI]

I tried it and it was awful , I was coughing my lungs out and having a 20kw compressor running made it even more unpleasant !

I have explained earlier the whole point of this is not to create mist it not Venturi based and causes minimal atomisation. The amount of lubricant used is tiny. However the proof of the pudding etc etc.

 

[Parm]

Kool Mist is safe for people, machines and parts
Kool Mist contains no halogens or sulfides and is totally free of dangerous or otherwise troublesome chemicals. It is harmless to operators and ends problems of mist fog fumes. Kool Mist will not cause corrosion, buildup, dermatitis, rancidity or objectionable odors. Properly diluted with water Kool Mist does not create rust or stains on machined parts. As a result, it sharply reduces parts spoilages, eliminates employee health claims, and precludes problems with health and environmental agencies such as OSHA, NASA, AEC, and the EPA.

I think you are utterly wrong

metal working fluids are all safe when supplied as confirmed by the MSDS which rarely lists anything dangerous

what we are dealing with here is described as a process generated hazard

the continuous heating and cooling cycles allow for the proliferation of bacteria, biocides are added to control bacteria, when these pesky buggers die they leave endotoxins. This is just a simple late night explanation, there is much more detail

the exact mechanism of disease is unknown but it’s universally recognised that inhalation exposure to water mix metal working fluids causes a type of irreversible occupational asthma called hypersensitivity pneumonitis

folks, try and avoid atomising metal working fluid, if you have to then engineered control solutions are must

 

[pressbrake1]

I have explained earlier the whole point of this is not to create mist it not Venturi based and causes minimal atomisation. The amount of lubricant used is tiny. However the proof of the pudding etc etc.

You asked for any experience of it and there was too much mist in the system I used . I didn’t want mist but I couldn’t tune it out

 

[pressbrake1]

I think you are utterly wrong

metal working fluids are all safe when supplied as confirmed by the MSDS which rarely lists anything dangerous

what we are dealing with here is described as a process generated hazard

the continuous heating and cooling cycles allow for the proliferation of bacteria, biocides are added to control bacteria, when these pesky buggers die they leave endotoxins. This is just a simple late night explanation, there is much more detail

the exact mechanism of disease is unknown but it’s universally recognised that inhalation exposure to water mix metal working fluids causes a type of irreversible occupational asthma called hypersensitivity pneumonitis

folks, try and avoid atomising metal working fluid, if you have to then engineered control solutions are must

A cnc without a anti mist cyclone filter is a menace

 

[pressbrake1]

I used to have a 20l drum of neat cutting oil that was used in multi spindles, not seen it for a while but should be somewhere

Reminds me of the big face broaching machines. The cutting oil got everywhere and you couldn’t wash off the smell

 

[Laurie Tedcastle]

A cnc without a anti mist cyclone filter is a menace

Clive,

Are you saying that filtration is required for all forms of metal working fluids or only mist? I either use flood neat cutting oil or cut dry.

Laurie