Barking Mat
Cuddler of hedgehogs.
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- 12,909
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- France, Brittany.
Nowt wrong with that, looks bloody competent to me.
- Thread starter whensparksfly
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julianthegypsy
Member
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- 4,225
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- Cirencester
People extract the urine given half a chance. As everyone else has said, £40 an hour, or if you're good at estimates, quote a price, but base it on £50 an hour, and make sure that if the "small patch" you've been asked to repair turns into a two foot long rebuild job as soon as you hit it with the grinder, you get onto the customer immediately. I tell people that my welder isn't suitable for thin metal like car bodies but it's bullcarp, I just Don't want to lie under a car on cold concrete getting showered with sparks. Anyone willing to do it, and with the skills, absolutely deserves to charge serious money for it.
No need for me to say what others say - £20 PH is too cheap for skilled labour.
In the late 90s, I worked for a company that changed £27.50 PH for engineers to go on site and service air compressors. Over night the management doubled the price to £55 PH, saying it had been too cheap for too long. Yes we lost some customers, but not nearly as many as we thought.
Moral of this story was, at double the price you only need half as much much work to make the same living.
There’s also folk that are turned off when the price is too cheap - thinking there must be something wrong.
Don’t feel bad for charging the appropriate amount for your worth, and don’t feel bad about losing bad customers.
In the late 90s, I worked for a company that changed £27.50 PH for engineers to go on site and service air compressors. Over night the management doubled the price to £55 PH, saying it had been too cheap for too long. Yes we lost some customers, but not nearly as many as we thought.
Moral of this story was, at double the price you only need half as much much work to make the same living.
There’s also folk that are turned off when the price is too cheap - thinking there must be something wrong.
Don’t feel bad for charging the appropriate amount for your worth, and don’t feel bad about losing bad customers.
premmington
Member
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- 5,617
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- Norfolk
Mate I own a garage - I too have suffered with my mental health dealing with bad customers over 38yrs.
It has not had me packing myself off to the GP's for tablets. It just makes me angry thats all... "Grumpy and nasty"
What it has done has given me more confidence to charge more.
Hold this thought:
Why do three jobs for £30 each - when you can do two for £50 each and get more money for less work - and only have to deal with two/thirds of the idiots.
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Shell restoration work is a nightmare - just nobody in the trade wants to do it - most people looking for it - have a problem finding someone willing to take it on at any price now.
W.olly
Member
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- 3,713
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- Radcliffe, Manchester
For that work in them pictures kida i am shocked at what you are charging and you getting morons moaning, but thats what morons do. Looks dam fine work and take pride in it. Its nit you its them that are no good. To many folk now wanting it cheap due to folk thinking they can do it when they cant to a good standard. So it pees on all decent workers chips.
As others said, put up a better rate to me would be £40ph. Its a skill after all.
Folk want to much way to much. Reason i dont bother now and happy wit a simple life as i dont like stress or confrontations in anyway.
:Last job i was offered was to design and build from a shell to accommodation was three boats i put a daily charge for it at £265. he was happy so i went to check it out.
In the end after I gone through ideas and plan of action and time he hasn't bothered. And a while after I spoke to a chap in the yard that he said I was a bit expensive.
Dot you worry and bump your prices and get folk that appreciate your work. Your loosing out at the minute sorry to say.
All best kida
As others said, put up a better rate to me would be £40ph. Its a skill after all.
Folk want to much way to much. Reason i dont bother now and happy wit a simple life as i dont like stress or confrontations in anyway.
:Last job i was offered was to design and build from a shell to accommodation was three boats i put a daily charge for it at £265. he was happy so i went to check it out.
In the end after I gone through ideas and plan of action and time he hasn't bothered. And a while after I spoke to a chap in the yard that he said I was a bit expensive.
Dot you worry and bump your prices and get folk that appreciate your work. Your loosing out at the minute sorry to say.
All best kida
ajlelectronics
Forum Supporter
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- Gloucester, England
After more than 40 years, I have seen it all, yet it is only this year that I had to sack a customer.
Pricing wise, remember the phrase "reassuringly expensive". What it means is that your customers perception of you is based on what you charge to an extent. Charging £20 per hour gross puts you (in customers' eyes) into the bodge it and scarper class and so you will attract those who are never satisfied more than any other. Put your rates up to £40 or even £50 per hour PLUS materials and you will get better customers, a better reputation and you will be happier.
As for working on old Fords, remember the "scene" tax, the owners EXPECT to pay the going rate for a first class job, which you are clearly capable of. Don't sell yourself short, let the bodge artists take your idiot customers, you really don't need them. You will then have time for the good jobs.
Pricing wise, remember the phrase "reassuringly expensive". What it means is that your customers perception of you is based on what you charge to an extent. Charging £20 per hour gross puts you (in customers' eyes) into the bodge it and scarper class and so you will attract those who are never satisfied more than any other. Put your rates up to £40 or even £50 per hour PLUS materials and you will get better customers, a better reputation and you will be happier.
As for working on old Fords, remember the "scene" tax, the owners EXPECT to pay the going rate for a first class job, which you are clearly capable of. Don't sell yourself short, let the bodge artists take your idiot customers, you really don't need them. You will then have time for the good jobs.
addjunkie
Forum Supporter
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- 12,354
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- Northumberland. Reet oot in the sticks
Classic Fords are an expensive hobby, in fact hookers and coke is probably cheaper. Your alsoin quite a niche market as not many will have the skills to do the work. Charge more, Id say 50 would be reasonable plus parts. A youngun over the way from me does up bling bling jap stuff, rebuilds, lots of welding etc, hes charging 70 quid plus vat for anything, and has a que.
weldingnovice
Member
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- 262
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- Northeast
Fitted a kitchen for a bloke a while back. Has a specialist welding company. He was sitting about reading as normal, so I asked if he had much work.
He said that 20 ish years since he had adopted the 20% rule.
As in 20% of his work brought in 80% of his money, so he didn't bother with the 80% that would make up the other 20% of money. Japanese philosopher ific.
Ok if you're established and not struggling with overheads etc.
That looks like quality work btw.
He said that 20 ish years since he had adopted the 20% rule.
As in 20% of his work brought in 80% of his money, so he didn't bother with the 80% that would make up the other 20% of money. Japanese philosopher ific.
Ok if you're established and not struggling with overheads etc.
That looks like quality work btw.
northwest
Searching for the Holy Grail.........
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That is a plus as far as I am concerned. People WANT to take it to the expensive bloke, just so they appear to be able to afford the "better" craftsman. Expensive = better, right?
Smallfry
HE's Spartacus.
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- 1,685
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- Kent UK
I am a cheapskate. I admit it. There is no way I would pay £20 an hour for anyone to do any work at all on my own vehicles.
Why ? A. Because I can do it myself. (I am apprenticed Body and Paint) B. I don't have the sort of money a project like this would take. C. I have worked in the motor trade, so I have seen what goes on. D. I suppose I like and enjoy
doing it, although at my own pace. However, I find I am enjoying it a lot less of late.
The thing with a project like that is the hours involved, the perceived value of the vehicle (an old Escort will NEVER be worth any more than £250 in my eyes) and the type of people that own them.
What the OP is charging, is "tack some sills on, or plate over a hole just to get it through an MOT" money. What he is doing is restoration or custom work, and thats a different ballgame altogether.
If, for example, that were an old Aston Martin, the owner would not baulk at £100 an hour. Quoting the same guy £20 an hour would make him think you were not up to the job.
You have to charge more to cover your overheads. If you are not earning a decent living out of it, without being greedy, you might as well go and stack shelves in Asda or wherever, and not have the hassle and worry.
Why ? A. Because I can do it myself. (I am apprenticed Body and Paint) B. I don't have the sort of money a project like this would take. C. I have worked in the motor trade, so I have seen what goes on. D. I suppose I like and enjoy
doing it, although at my own pace. However, I find I am enjoying it a lot less of late.The thing with a project like that is the hours involved, the perceived value of the vehicle (an old Escort will NEVER be worth any more than £250 in my eyes) and the type of people that own them.
What the OP is charging, is "tack some sills on, or plate over a hole just to get it through an MOT" money. What he is doing is restoration or custom work, and thats a different ballgame altogether.
If, for example, that were an old Aston Martin, the owner would not baulk at £100 an hour. Quoting the same guy £20 an hour would make him think you were not up to the job.
You have to charge more to cover your overheads. If you are not earning a decent living out of it, without being greedy, you might as well go and stack shelves in Asda or wherever, and not have the hassle and worry.
redlig
Member
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- 3,591
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- wiltshire uk
Nearly 60 years ago a friend and I decided to do a few roadside repairs to make a few bob . First job was a beetle clutch . Friend new what he was doing, job done in a couple of hours (from memory) and £20 charged for labour. Not a bodge . As we drove home I said that I had the feeling that the customer was dubious and I thought that we hadn't charged enough. After a think we both decided it wasn't worth the hassle .
I'm paying £45/hour +parts for mechanic work
guy I use is a good mechanic, 99% of it I'd do myself but I just don't have the time
I'm in the north east, that's about the going rate (I think)
and he outright refuses old rusty welding etc.
so you're deffo. under charging
(and I'm not in the charge more do less camp.... but then again I'm production based)
guy I use is a good mechanic, 99% of it I'd do myself but I just don't have the time
I'm in the north east, that's about the going rate (I think)
and he outright refuses old rusty welding etc.
so you're deffo. under charging
(and I'm not in the charge more do less camp.... but then again I'm production based)
daedalusminos
Member
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- 2,201
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- Norwich
So, say all the other garages charge £60/HR.
You're obviously happy with £20/HR and on the face of it your customers will be happy with that.
But what if you take 4 times longer than the other garages....your customer is peed because now the job is more expensive and has taken longer.
You're obviously happy with £20/HR and on the face of it your customers will be happy with that.
But what if you take 4 times longer than the other garages....your customer is peed because now the job is more expensive and has taken longer.
W.olly
Member
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- Radcliffe, Manchester
I thought it was reasonable at that rate haha. Not OTT or cheap. And as it's still sat there not been touched you can tell he is a dreamer. Thats the trouble in that game so many dreamers.
Gareth J
Member
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- 3,488
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- North Cornwall
If you've been at it for 20years, I can't see your work being terrible and you still getting customers. Even at £20.
Don't forget, if you're doing this self employed, you need to be charging enough that you can afford not to be doing this forever. Let's be honest, it's not work that's forgiving on a body.
If running the show is part of the issue, consider asking if any body shops will take you on. With a good skillset, they'll probably snap you up, for significantly more than £20. And you'll get a pension. And you won't have to pay for a workshop, consumables or answer the phone. And at clock off time, you go home.
Don't forget, if you're doing this self employed, you need to be charging enough that you can afford not to be doing this forever. Let's be honest, it's not work that's forgiving on a body.
If running the show is part of the issue, consider asking if any body shops will take you on. With a good skillset, they'll probably snap you up, for significantly more than £20. And you'll get a pension. And you won't have to pay for a workshop, consumables or answer the phone. And at clock off time, you go home.
Munkul
Jack of some trades, Master of none
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- 7,512
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- Cumbria
main dealer mechanics are around £100/hr here as well.
Self employed game varies way too much really. £20/hr is too low for anything other than low skill low overhead work.
Munkul
Jack of some trades, Master of none
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- 7,512
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- Cumbria
To the OP:
I would immediately tell all of your customers that your prices are going up by a % and tell them why, clearly and precisely:
- you skipped a few years of pay rises to keep it affordable for the customer, but this is no longer sustainable
- your overheads have gone up with inflation
- the current market rate for skilled workmanship is far higher than even your new rate and you're still affordable
- any other good reasons you can think of
what % you want to make it go up by is up to you. If you need to keep current work, then maybe 25%? But realistically you need to get it up by 50% in the next 12 months
By the way, no-one wants to weld cars to pass MOT in this neck of the woods any more, there's a definite shortage. Probably a market for that sort of work around the £40-£50/hr mark. It's crap work, but would be decent money.
I would immediately tell all of your customers that your prices are going up by a % and tell them why, clearly and precisely:
- you skipped a few years of pay rises to keep it affordable for the customer, but this is no longer sustainable
- your overheads have gone up with inflation
- the current market rate for skilled workmanship is far higher than even your new rate and you're still affordable
- any other good reasons you can think of
what % you want to make it go up by is up to you. If you need to keep current work, then maybe 25%? But realistically you need to get it up by 50% in the next 12 months
By the way, no-one wants to weld cars to pass MOT in this neck of the woods any more, there's a definite shortage. Probably a market for that sort of work around the £40-£50/hr mark. It's crap work, but would be decent money.
