Welders wanted to test!!!

[TechnicAl]

Maybe this has something to do with it
http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/legal.htm

I think that after this there were a flood of claims but they have mostly (maybe all of them) thrown out of court for various reasons.

 

[TechnicAl]

http://www.abermed.com/news/111-emp...posed-to-potentially-fatal-welding-fumes.html

 

[Rrunnach]

Maybe this has something to do with it
http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/legal.htm

I think that after this there were a flood of claims but they have mostly (maybe all of them) thrown out of court for various reasons.

Al, as you know, litigation was USA based. Not many UK legal firms would consider even a no win, no fee claim. One other point, the welder study folks, maybe they can furnish us with who is covering cost of this research, after all, this is what Uni's do, research on behalf of A, b or, C organisation, maybe BMA are funding this? Too many speculative posts.

 

[Rrunnach]

Well given you've said previously that you teach apprentices to run 6013s as DCEN constantly, when about 90% of the world runs DCEP (And for good reason) I'll take your comments with a shovel of salt also
I also banged heads with someone who had 30 odd years experience of fabrication and welding supervision and management, yet couldn't understand why loose clothing was a danger near rotating machinery...years of experience isn't the be all and end all...

(I also interviewed for GSK in an IT role and did my research on them...and turned down a post offer based on what I found out about their practices... - suppressing evidence for years that Seroxat resulted in adolescent users committing suicide and attempting to discredit studies...all to protect their bottom line and that was just the mild end)

They are designed to run on both polarities. Students are also advised to try both polarities, they can effectively decide what suits them best, it is called choice. End test using either or, will confirm competence, very, very rarely, do we have a lad whose coupons fail, or have unacceptable root or face profiles using either, or. I'm sure the 30 odd year super, took your comments with a shovel of salt, too.

I have no idea of your IT skills or, previous roles within IT, a little level 2 cert in fab/weld, is basic stuff.

 

[Rrunnach]

Final word on what was a positive post by the OP. Here is a uni requesting volunteers to participate with them for research purposes, jeez, they are even paying expenses. Guys testing out for a start sometimes don't get paid expenses.

Do we really care what research motives are? Should this particular area of research not be welcomed? Whether there is an ulterior motive, this will come out in the wash, when research concludes. To speculate on this forum is pointless. Those of us who work within these fume environments, should be glad such research is taking place, not theory speculating.

There are robust H&S regulations in place with regards to welding, I have worked and, I know current shops where regs are side lined. We make our learners aware of these hazards, we make our learners aware of rod spec and, polarity options, we also demonstrate use of both. Because I can produce acceptable welds on + or - cut coupons, bend coupons, which do not fail, produce acceptable root and face profiles. Do same with MIG/MAG/TIG. I know if I were a lad, who I would be listening to.

I forgot STT, too.

 

[welderstudy]

If you have decent point of use extraction and ventilation and/or wear proper respiratory PPE there should be NO exposure (i.e. air fed masks either adflo type or better still externally sourced air ala paint sprayers use)

I've been in academic circles, and I'm sorry to say...many academics...just don't get the real world...or worse make the argument that no one is obeying the rules so lets develop a vaccine...instead of arguing via studies for stricter enforcement of existing rules, on site inspections, stiffer financial penalties for H&S violators...

There should be no need for a vaccine if peoper preventative measures are in use

Who is funding this study? (universities don't do this for fun...someone is always bankrolling things) - GSK? Merck Serono? Another pharmaceutical company?

Ok and who or what is going to convince all companies in the UK that this special (expensive) PPE equipment is necessary? Or convince policy makers that stricter rules need to be in place? Who do you think writes and feeds in to the guidance that the HSE and other similar bodies produce? (Have a look at the Green Book, chapter 25, page 306-that's some of our work.) And what about the thousands of welders who aren't employed by a big company that can afford expensive PPE or are self-employed or work abroad in places where conditions are worse or not controlled by the HSE? That's where this research comes in.

Re: your point about good PPE = no exposure, unfortunately that's not always the case. Nothing is ever 100% efficient and we've seen that in a range of occupations including my own. That would be ideal but again how do we know that PPE is working the way it should without any research?

The work is funded by the Colt Foundation (http://www.coltfoundation.org.uk/). Unfortunately, no pharma company will fund this sort of work because it isn't 'mainsteam' enough i.e affecting billions of people worldwide. The study's also had ethical approval from the NHS.

Finally, I appreciate your concerns about the motives of research but unfortunately occupational health research isn't really 'sexy' science i.e it isn't well funded enough for us to go off and do what we like on a whim for the sake of doing research. Charity funding = doing research that's needed and will have an immediate if not very short term impact on people's lives. Yes we do do work that might take years to have a real world impact or might never have a real world impact because we were barking up the wrong tree because without that how do we move forward? But that is not what this particular study is about.

Ps:- the jab is already out there so no we aren't developing one. At the moment the jab is 'suggested' for welders and as you well know suggestions can be ignored. There also isn't enough biological evidence to directly link pneumonia to exposure to welding fumes. These are the two things we're trying to address.

 

[welderstudy]

Can I take you up on your last point regarding Vaccination.This is a proven to work,but should it get that far.I am not a coal face welder,I am involved in welding and its problems.We have a dedicated person on site that looks into these problems as their day to day job.She is 100% safety and very good at her job.You mention PPE, a very important safety issue for any welder or gouger,or for anyone in heavy industry.The days of Brunnel and Shipbuiling have gone.3 m do a reasonable fume mask also Kemppi do a superb air fed helmet.To be quite honest 10-15 hours a week is not a long time.If I can help let me know.

Hi, if you get in touch with me on r.suri@qmul.ac.uk we can take this forward

 

[welderstudy]

Hi everyone,

Just a quick update. We're still stuck on only 5 welders and aren't going to be able to do much without getting to at least 10 so if you know of anyone who may be interested and can come to London to give a sample please pass on the message.

Cheers!

 

[Shox Dr]

Your subbling block is, having to travel to London.

Can you not get a university or practice in other parts of the country to take the biopsies

 

[Kent]

Your subbling block is, having to travel to London.

Can you not get a university or practice in other parts of the country to take the biopsies

Yes agree I got called to London the other week three days work lost 130 paid max not even worth a claim

Welders can get the current pneumonia jab now, how many have?
It's no joke it put me on the brink of death twenty years ago in intestine care

 

[welderstudy]

Your subbling block is, having to travel to London.

Can you not get a university or practice in other parts of the country to take the biopsies

Unfortunately not. We don't have the ethical approval to conduct the study anywhere else apart from Queen Mary University of London. Getting ethical approval will take another 6 months or so which we simply can't warrant for just 5 people.

I am however, struggling to believe that there are no or not many welders in and around London!

We are offering £100 as compensation and will cover travel expenses.

The pneumonia jab is available but not many people are aware of it/offered it free by their companies/can or will pay for it.

 

[Brad93]

@welderstudy im in Essex would be interesting to be part of a study. email on the way

 

[Rrunnach]

I am however, struggling to believe that there are no or not many welders in and around London!

We are offering £100 as compensation and will cover travel expenses.

I am surprised myself on lack of interest within your area, have you tried contacting local unions for support, I no longer know, which union represent welders?

 

[welderstudy]

I have contacted local unions but have either been ignored, been met with lack of interest or asked for money to send out the message to their members, which we simply don't have given that we're charity funded.

 

[snowcat]

I could easily do it the stumbling block is I don't spend consistent time with a bucket on anymore, I am very particular these days when I do weld on proper PPE, when I worked daily on the tools I almost had consistent colds with painful sinus , then I found an air fed bucket, coupled with the habit of always slipping a mask on before grinding, or picking up a plasma torch eliminated the problems.

As I said it would be no problem to do we often take the kids to London on Days out, but it depends on if I do enough hours now to help.

 

[nickk]

i am in a similar position ,some weeks i only weld 5 hours,others 20 ,am i a valid candidate? however i do have coughs sometimes & am more sensitive to grinding fumes so wear a mask when grinding for more than a few seconds,iwuld be prepared to travel 200 miles for this very good cause.

 

[lincoln17]

Hi all, I'm glad to see this has picked up a bit of interest, I went to London and was sampled, it took 1/2 an hour and Welder study paid me £200 for my trouble. Its for our own good and I would welcome anything that will improve our chances of survival! Couldn't believe the negativity earlier in this thread, any research that could improve welders health gets my vote. Maybe that negativity is part of the reason why so many jobs are being done abroad or companies are bringing in foreign workers.
As for the guys who feel that they are not doing enough welding time I sometimes only do 5 hours a week, then I might do 60 hours the next week, it depends on what comes through the door, i'm sure welder study will advise but I think if your welding on a regular basis she will be glad to see you. There must be hundreds of welders working in and around London I live in the western highlands and I know 20 - 30 welders that are operating in a 50 mile radius of my workshop and my next door neighbour is about a mile away.

 

[snowcat]

I will send off an email and see if I can help, seams daft not to take part if eligible , I can drive to the 02 in 40mins and park for £8 a couple of quid on the Oyster card and I'm there. Not exactly like getting from the highlands of Scotland!.

 

[lincoln17]

Well done snowcat.

 

[welderstudy]

i am in a similar position ,some weeks i only weld 5 hours,others 20 ,am i a valid candidate? however i do have coughs sometimes & am more sensitive to grinding fumes so wear a mask when grinding for more than a few seconds,iwuld be prepared to travel 200 miles for this very good cause.

Nick, we have a questionnaire which will help us to work out if we can include you in the study. If you email me I can send it over: r.suri@qmul.ac.uk

As long as you're doing at least a few hours every week, especially in the week that you come to see me, that works.