What's Going On? TIG 4043

[Rrunnach]

One place I worked had a vapour dipping tank, acetone was the medium, was also good for total job pre heat if work fitted tank, two birds, one tank....em, stone.

 

[Richard.]

Bet that saves a significant amount of time.

 

[Rrunnach]

It was good kit, no idea if such tanks are still available? Midway down inside of tank had a refrigerated coil all around, heater at bottom, which of course heated up a small amount acetone, which then gave off, vapour. Was cool to watch your job get lost in the mist. Maybe you have used or, seen similar?

 

[Richard.]

When the acetone vapor cleaned off the parts what happens to the dirt that's cleaned off? Is it taken away in the vapour or runs into a drip tank?

 

[Rrunnach]

Lays in bottom as a sludge, medium and sludge drained every so often, depending on use. I actually thought acetone was now banned?

 

[Richard.]

It was good kit, no idea if such tanks are still available? Midway down inside of tank had a refrigerated coil all around, heater at bottom, which of course heated up a small amount acetone, which then gave off, vapour. Was cool to watch your job get lost in the mist. Maybe you have used or, seen similar?

Never seen one. Sounds like real kit though. I've used degreaser baths before but they don't offer a heated solution nor do they work with vapour the part is just soaked and dries off

 

[Richard.]

I use small quantities. I bought this last month will last me ages. http://www.google.se/aclk?sa=l&ai=C...://www.mbfg.co.uk/acetone/acetone-1litre.html

 

[whm_fab]

I've not heard of that before. What's it like in comparison to acetone Jim.

I got a few gallons of Isoproply alcohol off a friend of mine that works in the chemistry dept of a Uni, so its 100% pure.
Its fantastic obviously for cleaning in general and leaving no residue, but it will not dissolve and clean oil and grease half as well as acetone.
Ive gone back to acetone, its more expensive but it is better - if there is no oil or grease on the part and i just want to give it a good clean il use the Iso to save the acetone.
Acetone is better, dont go out of your way for the alcohol, i just use it as i got it for free.

 

[whm_fab]

Lays in bottom as a sludge, medium and sludge drained every so often, depending on use. I actually thought acetone was now banned?

yuo can buy it from any decent hair and beauty wholesaler, i bought 2 litre bottle online, no problems.

 

[Rrunnach]

System was something like this: http://www.grecobrothers.com/chlorin.htm

 

[hotrodder]

heres an outside corner butt weld i actually did with a R-tech funny enough on 2mm 5052 plate with 4043 filler, 8lpm no lensm the beads are fairly mirror like finish, sorry for the crappy photo

I get that the photo may be the cause as the weld is clean & shiney in real life but the pic itself is saying not enough EP and/or shielding issues

Personally i don't see any signs of proper shielding problems in the fillet welds Brad posted... the occasional dark fleck in the weld could be from various things but even a slight shielding issue produces more consistant signs of contamination. Typically a scummy weldpool that's subtly different from the sluggish/scummy pool you get when AC balance is biased too far into EN

Inaccurate flowmeter is a good point, unless i missed it we don't know whether 6lpm is at the regulator (with or without a thorpe tube flowmeter) or from a 'peashooter' on the ceramic. That said IIRC R-tech regulators (if it's even a rtech reg) are notorious for under reading by quite a chunk? Tube to tube joints aside a fillet weld is pretty forgiving when it comes to flow rates compared to an outside corner where higher flow rates are more likely to cause problems than lower; drawing in air from a venturi effect

FWIW whenever i've mentioned flow rates i run i'm talking about readings at the regulator. 4 - 7 lpm through a #7 gas lens is my go to set up depending on joint type and amount of stickout. A few years ago that would've been through a single stage, single gauge fixed output Harris reg with a Harris flowmeter. These days the reg is newer but the same model and i ditched the Harris flowmeter for a GasIQ/Elga optimator to add a second stage and reduce the initial surge when striking an arc- noticable improvement to accuracy of arc striking/initial arc stability and saves a little argon too. I can't say what the flow rate at the torch is as i don't have a clue where my peashooter flowmeter is. I really should find/replace it as the scale on the Elga flowmeter doesn't have as fine a resolution as the old Harris one

The later v205 models have a button on the front panel for changing wave shape.some also have a 6010 stick setting not found on other variants

The second/6010 stick mode got added with fan on demand some years back, unless they've 'facelifted' it again AC waveforms stayed in the set up menu along with preflow time and various other things that should really be changeable without turning it off and then on again while holding down the parameter button

Like you once i found a setting that works i leave it there, on my dynasty i find that the 'soft squarewave' is the most universal so it stays there mostly, once again its in a hidden menu but luckily it can be changed while the machines running, used it on 'advanced' briefly last week when Langy came over as we needed a more penetrating arc,
not a great deal different but the 'soft' setting feels better for most stuff.

Is there much difference in arc noise/harshness between soft squarewave and the advanced?

 

[wheresmejumper]

the second/6010 stick mode got added with fan on demand some years back, unless they've 'facelifted' it again AC waveforms stayed in the set up menu along with preflow time and various other things that should really be changeable without turning it off and then on again while holding down the parameter button

I think i mixed up there hr.hands held up

 

[Richard.]

These days the reg is newer but the same model and i ditched the Harris flowmeter for a GasIQ/Elga optimator to add a second stage and reduce the initial surge when striking an arc- noticable improvement to accuracy of arc striking/initial arc stability and saves a little argon too

The elga multistage reg with flow meter I think is the same as mine badged Esab optiflow. They are very good but I have noticed as you say the scale on the flow meter is very course. Mine over reads by just under 1lpm when compared to my peashooter so I usually set it at the reg then adjust the flow till I'm happy with the results at the peashooter. Inside corner I can get away very well with 4lpm very well, butt joint and outside corner 5-6 usually (if I remember to adjust it.) to me the last run on the last pic does look a little compromised with contamination as some of the freeze frames look a little discoloured but as you say it could be a balance issue as apposed To gas or a bit of both maybe. Fwiw a good quick cheap modification to start with would be to replace the collect bodie set up with a lens and play with the balance till the reflection of the tungsten is gleaming in the pool. To be honest though the main problem was with the Si filler causing the dull grainy appearance and I don't think that's down to gas flow at all, more likely set up and or technique.

 

[whm_fab]

I get that the photo may be the cause as the weld is clean & shiney in real life but the pic itself is saying not enough EP and/or shielding issues

Personally i don't see any signs of proper shielding problems in the fillet welds Brad posted... the occasional dark fleck in the weld could be from various things but even a slight shielding issue produces more consistant signs of contamination. Typically a scummy weldpool that's subtly different from the sluggish/scummy pool you get when AC balance is biased too far into EN

Inaccurate flowmeter is a good point, unless i missed it we don't know whether 6lpm is at the regulator (with or without a thorpe tube flowmeter) or from a 'peashooter' on the ceramic. That said IIRC R-tech regulators (if it's even a rtech reg) are notorious for under reading by quite a chunk? Tube to tube joints aside a fillet weld is pretty forgiving when it comes to flow rates compared to an outside corner where higher flow rates are more likely to cause problems than lower; drawing in air from a venturi effect

Its most definitely the photo, sorry it was taken on a crappy phone at the time, and i agree how it looks!
I've full EU and U.S qualifications in alu plate and tube TIG it was just to illustrate that clean beads are possible with an R-tech.

and yes, your right, the best place for an R-tech regulator is over your shoulder - its just a generic chinese item rebadged.

Richard, do you always use a gas lens on Aluminium? I find it unnecessary alot of the time.

 

[Pete.]

I've not heard of that before. What's it like in comparison to acetone Jim.

AKa isopropanol. I use it as a solvent. Pretty cheap.

 

[Richard.]

Its most definitely the photo, sorry it was taken on a crappy phone at the time, and i agree how it looks!
I've full EU and U.S qualifications in alu plate and tube TIG it was just to illustrate that clean beads are possible with an R-tech.

and yes, your right, the best place for an R-tech regulator is over your shoulder - its just a generic chinese item rebadged.

Richard, do you always use a gas lens on Aluminium? I find it unnecessary alot of the time.

It's all I use for all my Tig now. The biggest plus is obviously the saving in gas the collet body's do a decent enough job but the gas is released through a number of holes round the outside its then swirled and deflected off the walls of the cup and forced down to shield the pool. The lens the gas goes straight down evenly passing through a fine mesh which disperses it very evenly over the pool like a blanket as such. The even and direct coverage makes it much more efficient thus allowing for lower flow rates.

 

[whm_fab]

It's all I use for all my Tig now. The biggest plus is obviously the saving in gas the collet body's do a decent enough job but the gas is released through a number of holes round the outside its then swirled and deflected off the walls of the cup and forced down to shield the pool. The lens the gas goes straight down evenly passing through a fine mesh which disperses it very evenly over the pool like a blanket as such. The even and direct coverage makes it much more efficient thus allowing for lower flow rates.

yes i know of course, im only too well aware of the theory, i actually make my own gas lens's for titanium and inconel! with these type of metals, inc stainless they are essential - but my question was specifically related to aluminium - i dont do aluminium a fraction as much as the exotic metals, so i was just interested to see your opinion on how vital they are for aluminium. Any of the xray tests i did for aluminium sheet/plate i never used a gas lens as i had to use the rigs in the test lab, haven't failed one (yet!) is it purely for gas saving, or do you find a difference in coverage (specifically aluminium) ?

 

[whm_fab]

heres one of my diy lens's made from a €1.50 copper reducer - then i machined a nylon insulator and threaded it and pressed it into the cup, 2 layers of scotchbrite - i can weld 2inches at a time of titanium with no trailing shield and no colour contamination. ive a number of these in many shapes and sizes

 

[Richard.]

Well it's for a bit of both really. The collet body is as you know very acceptable for Alu. The lens does offer a more evenly distributed gas flow direct onto the pool so it can only improve things further. I pay for my own gas so the biggest advantage for me is the saving as I've dropped my consistent usage to over 1lpm. I've not had contamination issues with a collet body set up on Alu before but to achieve the same results I've had to have higher flow rates.

 

[Richard.]

heres one of my diy lens's made from a €1.50 copper reducer - then i machined a nylon insulator and threaded it and pressed it into the cup, 2 layers of scotchbrite - i can weld 2inches at a time of titanium with no trailing shield and no colour contamination. ive a number of these in many shapes and sizes

I saw that I think on an earlier thread. Looks just the business for those exotic metals. Yeah even for stainless as you say a lens set up is more crucial if surface oxides are to be kept to a minimum. Ti I've never had the pleasure of welding myself but understand the crucial fact of flooding it with gas to keep out the contamination oxides.