- Thread starter superfly
- Start date
I was just sorting some paperwork and noticed my SIP compressor manual.
Had a look in it and it says use "40 grade compressor oil such as elf DACNIS
p 100"
Also says I should drain the initial oil after 50 hours of running and then every 500 hours.
oops
It still has its original oil in it.
I have had it about 12 years. Think I should change it?
Had a look in it and it says use "40 grade compressor oil such as elf DACNIS
p 100"
Also says I should drain the initial oil after 50 hours of running and then every 500 hours.
oops
It still has its original oil in it.
I have had it about 12 years. Think I should change it?
mangocrazy
Italian V-twin nutjob
- Messages
- 1,165
- Location
- Sheffield, UK
Just checked the destruction manual on my Metabo and it says to use SEA 5 W 50 synthetic... 
Wolf Cheyenne
Hi just found you had a compressor thread as I have been here quite alot for the welding tips etc - great site thanks for letting me in..
I just checked my Compressor the oil was looking rather dark and used...
So I drained it all and tipped the compressor up to remove the last remaining grimy oil. The oil I drained is considerably thicker than I thought.
I then thought I would put the best stuff I have in it so I put some Fully Synthetic four stroke racing oil in....(I am a bike racing nut)
Well to be honest it was not a good idea, in the sight glass it foamed up, the oil is fairly thin and pink. It was also blowing it out of the top breather plug.
So I guess for this particular type of compressor fully synthetic is way too thin.
I will have to get some good compressor oil just to be safe as its not very old and does seem to be a pretty good compressor.
I have lots of different types/viscosity normal engine oil so I might after a bit more research use that, I think compressor oil is most probably an expensive item because it has 'compressor' in the name and good engine oil is most probably as good.
Just one comment not sure an oil filter is the best filter to use for a compressor, I spray with mine so the particles would most probably go through an oil filter. Mind you that might be better than the foam insert I have. I have got numerous filters that go on sports bikes so might have to adapt one...
Great thread great site ....Thanks...
Hi just found you had a compressor thread as I have been here quite alot for the welding tips etc - great site thanks for letting me in..
I just checked my Compressor the oil was looking rather dark and used...
So I drained it all and tipped the compressor up to remove the last remaining grimy oil. The oil I drained is considerably thicker than I thought.
I then thought I would put the best stuff I have in it so I put some Fully Synthetic four stroke racing oil in....(I am a bike racing nut)
Well to be honest it was not a good idea, in the sight glass it foamed up, the oil is fairly thin and pink. It was also blowing it out of the top breather plug.
So I guess for this particular type of compressor fully synthetic is way too thin.
I will have to get some good compressor oil just to be safe as its not very old and does seem to be a pretty good compressor.
I have lots of different types/viscosity normal engine oil so I might after a bit more research use that, I think compressor oil is most probably an expensive item because it has 'compressor' in the name and good engine oil is most probably as good.
Just one comment not sure an oil filter is the best filter to use for a compressor, I spray with mine so the particles would most probably go through an oil filter. Mind you that might be better than the foam insert I have. I have got numerous filters that go on sports bikes so might have to adapt one...
Great thread great site ....Thanks...
shenion
Tool Pack Rat
- Messages
- 7,586
- Location
- Stone Mountain, GA USA
Compressor oil is not expensive. I replaced mine and I think I paid $8 for a pint.
Auto/motorcycle oil would not be right as it has detergents to pick up junk and suspend it so the oil filter can take it out. You would want non-detergent oil so the dirt and shavings settle to the bottom.
Auto/motorcycle oil would not be right as it has detergents to pick up junk and suspend it so the oil filter can take it out. You would want non-detergent oil so the dirt and shavings settle to the bottom.
penfold
Ambassador plenipotentiary
- Messages
- 2,116
- Location
- Argyll and Bute, God's own country.
What he said; other than being oily, compressor oil is nothing like engine oil, the requirements are completely different. You're also not saving money as decent synth is more expensive than boggo compressor oil.
pedrobedro
Man at Matalan
- Messages
- 12,938
- Location
- CX near Chesterfield
I picked up 2 litres of 30 grade compressor oil for my old Sip direct drive thinking it was due a change, this was about 5 years ago. I drained the old oil out and it took about 1/3 of a litre to fill it back up to the mark on the dipstick. The oil cost me about £10 and I still have some left.
i've just used engine oil for years.
the pumps say SAE 30 on them. tho they do seem to run happyer with a multigrade in them when it was cold the one without multigrade in it wouldn't work very well, it'd sturggel into life then stall, put the wrong oil in and worked fine
the pumps say SAE 30 on them. tho they do seem to run happyer with a multigrade in them when it was cold the one without multigrade in it wouldn't work very well, it'd sturggel into life then stall, put the wrong oil in and worked fine
normspanners
Member
- Messages
- 8,853
Funny thing about this thread, my comp fell over and lost its oil out on a job a few weeks ago just before the cold weather hit again and I put in 5w 40 fully syth because thats all I could get from a filling station close by, and it ran perfectly ok starting ok etc, anyway I was in Aldi and they had comp oil on special so thought I would get some and change out the motor oil.
It worked ok ran up to pressure ok whilst in the woprkshop till the snow hit again and the comp was in an out building and on first start it would blow the overload, up until the unit warmed the oil, then would run perfectly for hours starting and stopping OK. until it was not needed for a long period then on restart it would struggle. I dont know the grade of oil but it was for 'all' piston compressors.
Since the weather has warmed up, I now have no problem with it starting and it is left switched on all day and just runs when it feels like, so I may have to change the oil back to a thinner grade for the winter. I have experienced this with other compressors in the past and have put it down to faulty overloads or capacitors etc, but as with engines they do need a different oil for different ambient conditions, especially the type that use conrod dip /splash method of lub.
But for starting then the extreme temp of long term running maybe a multi grade is a better option.
It worked ok ran up to pressure ok whilst in the woprkshop till the snow hit again and the comp was in an out building and on first start it would blow the overload, up until the unit warmed the oil, then would run perfectly for hours starting and stopping OK. until it was not needed for a long period then on restart it would struggle. I dont know the grade of oil but it was for 'all' piston compressors.
Since the weather has warmed up, I now have no problem with it starting and it is left switched on all day and just runs when it feels like, so I may have to change the oil back to a thinner grade for the winter. I have experienced this with other compressors in the past and have put it down to faulty overloads or capacitors etc, but as with engines they do need a different oil for different ambient conditions, especially the type that use conrod dip /splash method of lub.
But for starting then the extreme temp of long term running maybe a multi grade is a better option.
MattF
Forum Supporter
- Messages
- 16,608
- Location
- South Yorkshire
Personally, I've never been able to figure any valid reason for not using engine oil in piston compressors, especially older ones. No matter how you think about it, the oil arguments don't add up.
1) Pretty much any oil available these days is better than something from forty years ago, so older equipment is likely to be a happy bunny with pretty much any modern lubricant, (barring obviously the fact of certain EP additives which can destroy yellow metals, though those are mainly limited to gear oils, from what I recall?).
2) Detergent effect and particles. Whilst true that the likes of diesel oils have a detergent effect simply due to diesels being sooty engines, where's the particle suspension obsession come from? Any oil will hold onto particles until they eventually settle out else get filtered out somehow. The viscosity will affect its grip on particles within it more than anything else. Plus, if suspension of particles and filtering are the sole reason for not using that oil in an unfiltered piston mechanism, why then will people merrily whack it in a four stroke engine, for which it will likely be the recommended lubricant, which has no oil filter yet not give that a second thought?
End of the day, unless someone is running without an intake filter else something is seriously gubbed within the compressor unit, there should be no notable particles floating about in the oil anyhow. Plus, these are generally splash lubrication systems. The whole sump is acting as a settling tank, and once that oils warms up, any crap will settle out quickly. It's not like the contents of that are being pumped around the system.
3) Price. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, compressor oil is quite cheap, in comparison. That tends to suggest it's a basic monograde oil with basic characteristics. Why not would using a multigrade with known thinning characteristics be an improvement over a monograde oil of which the viscosity at a comparative temperature is unspecified? Engine oil has to put up with far more on the temperature and abuse front whilst retaining it's characteristic lubrication qualities for a minimum period of time, so again, that suggests that engine oil is likely a superior replacement rather than a step backwards.
Personally, I'm becoming quite disenchanted with the whole oil subject, these days. There are recommendations coming out of the yazoo by manufacturers and the like, yet think about the reasons they list and it's more like they're just making the best attempt they can out of a worst case.
Take slideway oil/lubricant as one example. One thing which is an absolute non-starter with lathes is grease due to its ability to cling to everything including swarf, yet slideways oil has tackifiers added to enhance the oils ability to cling. Can anyone explain the logic of that one? That sounds totally counter-productive to me. You're removing the fact that oil disperses and takes crap with it, and in effect replacing it with a light grease, yet one is recommended and the other isn't.
The thread in which I asked about hydraulic oil is another example. That's supposed to be the bees knees for a lubricant, according to some, yet apparently even that has at least one drawback which is commonly skimmed over in any discussions I've seen regarding it.
To be honest, personally, I've wasted too much time trying to figure out what's what with oil, and it honestly sounds like manufacturers, in a lot of cases, just make things up to make something sound like it's necessary. IMHO, as long as something has roughly the required viscosity, (including multigrade oils), and is replaced at regular, frequent intervals, as should be a matter of course for any lubricated system, owt's pretty much eligible on the bog standard oil front now. Either that or it's a case of spending silly amounts of money on several different lubricants just to have them taking up space unnecessarily, when likely one single lubricant will cover pretty much any purpose required of it.
It's a money making scheme, IMHO. I'm not suggesting that there aren't discernible differences between different types of lubricant, btw, but I'm merely suggesting that the differences aren't as tangible for general, real world applications as manufacturers would have us think. Why charge someone £2 per litre for a standard lubricant when you can charge them triple that for the all singing and dancing one which has guaranteed size esters/molecules?, which won't make a jot of difference in reality if a regular routine maintenance regime is adhered to.
If a piece of equipment is under warranty, stick with what's specified. Otherwise it's a suck-it-and-see scenario in my opinion.
Just my, (rather long-winded
), tuppence worth.
1) Pretty much any oil available these days is better than something from forty years ago, so older equipment is likely to be a happy bunny with pretty much any modern lubricant, (barring obviously the fact of certain EP additives which can destroy yellow metals, though those are mainly limited to gear oils, from what I recall?).
2) Detergent effect and particles. Whilst true that the likes of diesel oils have a detergent effect simply due to diesels being sooty engines, where's the particle suspension obsession come from? Any oil will hold onto particles until they eventually settle out else get filtered out somehow. The viscosity will affect its grip on particles within it more than anything else. Plus, if suspension of particles and filtering are the sole reason for not using that oil in an unfiltered piston mechanism, why then will people merrily whack it in a four stroke engine, for which it will likely be the recommended lubricant, which has no oil filter yet not give that a second thought?
End of the day, unless someone is running without an intake filter else something is seriously gubbed within the compressor unit, there should be no notable particles floating about in the oil anyhow. Plus, these are generally splash lubrication systems. The whole sump is acting as a settling tank, and once that oils warms up, any crap will settle out quickly. It's not like the contents of that are being pumped around the system.
3) Price. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, compressor oil is quite cheap, in comparison. That tends to suggest it's a basic monograde oil with basic characteristics. Why not would using a multigrade with known thinning characteristics be an improvement over a monograde oil of which the viscosity at a comparative temperature is unspecified? Engine oil has to put up with far more on the temperature and abuse front whilst retaining it's characteristic lubrication qualities for a minimum period of time, so again, that suggests that engine oil is likely a superior replacement rather than a step backwards.
Personally, I'm becoming quite disenchanted with the whole oil subject, these days. There are recommendations coming out of the yazoo by manufacturers and the like, yet think about the reasons they list and it's more like they're just making the best attempt they can out of a worst case.
Take slideway oil/lubricant as one example. One thing which is an absolute non-starter with lathes is grease due to its ability to cling to everything including swarf, yet slideways oil has tackifiers added to enhance the oils ability to cling. Can anyone explain the logic of that one? That sounds totally counter-productive to me. You're removing the fact that oil disperses and takes crap with it, and in effect replacing it with a light grease, yet one is recommended and the other isn't.
The thread in which I asked about hydraulic oil is another example. That's supposed to be the bees knees for a lubricant, according to some, yet apparently even that has at least one drawback which is commonly skimmed over in any discussions I've seen regarding it.
To be honest, personally, I've wasted too much time trying to figure out what's what with oil, and it honestly sounds like manufacturers, in a lot of cases, just make things up to make something sound like it's necessary. IMHO, as long as something has roughly the required viscosity, (including multigrade oils), and is replaced at regular, frequent intervals, as should be a matter of course for any lubricated system, owt's pretty much eligible on the bog standard oil front now. Either that or it's a case of spending silly amounts of money on several different lubricants just to have them taking up space unnecessarily, when likely one single lubricant will cover pretty much any purpose required of it.
It's a money making scheme, IMHO. I'm not suggesting that there aren't discernible differences between different types of lubricant, btw, but I'm merely suggesting that the differences aren't as tangible for general, real world applications as manufacturers would have us think. Why charge someone £2 per litre for a standard lubricant when you can charge them triple that for the all singing and dancing one which has guaranteed size esters/molecules?, which won't make a jot of difference in reality if a regular routine maintenance regime is adhered to.
If a piece of equipment is under warranty, stick with what's specified. Otherwise it's a suck-it-and-see scenario in my opinion.
Just my, (rather long-winded
), tuppence worth.
Last edited:
normspanners
Member
- Messages
- 8,853
I totally agree with the above as I have said in other posts,engine oil changes it's spec within a few weeks of being in an engine due primarily to the way the car is driven and I think long fast journeys are the best !! for keeping oil and engines in good condition.
Having stripped hundreds of engines and looked at the contamination / sludge build up etc Frequent oil changes are the way to go if you want an engine to last and all this 20000mls services are a load of b*****s 6000mls is well far enough for most vehicles or less if it is a shopping car. Also some of this 0 spec oil I believe is to thinwhen engines get a little worn and they start to burn it because the oil is nearly as thin as diesel, when it is hot.
I bought a petrol transit from a large estabishment it was their on site van, that was burning loads of oil,blue smoking when hot and fouling plugs etc.giving all the symptoms of a worn out engine and was speaking with a person by chance who worked there, I asked what oil they use he said you had to fill in a request for engine oil and they used hi spec castrol in 5lr containers, I asked how do they supply the hydraulic oil he said no request just go to the bulk tank and help yourself, I put 2x2 together and came to the conclusion they when filling in a request for 5ltrs they were keeping that for their own cars services and filling the poor old tranny with hydraulic ! I drained the oil (which was like P***s) filled it up with our fleet oil and it ran perfectly ok for years only using a'normal amount of oil' I converted it to LPG and did 50000 mls, of hard driving sold it to mate and he ran it for another 3/4 yrs till it rotted away. it seems that even though it had spent most of its early days running on hydraulic oil it had not suffered apart from the plugs and the exhaust full of oil. I stripped the engine when he had finished with it and it was still perfect.
Having stripped hundreds of engines and looked at the contamination / sludge build up etc Frequent oil changes are the way to go if you want an engine to last and all this 20000mls services are a load of b*****s 6000mls is well far enough for most vehicles or less if it is a shopping car. Also some of this 0 spec oil I believe is to thinwhen engines get a little worn and they start to burn it because the oil is nearly as thin as diesel, when it is hot.
I bought a petrol transit from a large estabishment it was their on site van, that was burning loads of oil,blue smoking when hot and fouling plugs etc.giving all the symptoms of a worn out engine and was speaking with a person by chance who worked there, I asked what oil they use he said you had to fill in a request for engine oil and they used hi spec castrol in 5lr containers, I asked how do they supply the hydraulic oil he said no request just go to the bulk tank and help yourself, I put 2x2 together and came to the conclusion they when filling in a request for 5ltrs they were keeping that for their own cars services and filling the poor old tranny with hydraulic ! I drained the oil (which was like P***s) filled it up with our fleet oil and it ran perfectly ok for years only using a'normal amount of oil' I converted it to LPG and did 50000 mls, of hard driving sold it to mate and he ran it for another 3/4 yrs till it rotted away. it seems that even though it had spent most of its early days running on hydraulic oil it had not suffered apart from the plugs and the exhaust full of oil. I stripped the engine when he had finished with it and it was still perfect.
Last edited:
MattF
Forum Supporter
- Messages
- 16,608
- Location
- South Yorkshire
Couldn't agree more on those extended service intervals. The mere thought of those makes me cringe, and I ain't even a vehicle mechanic. How a synthetic behaves in a sealed test environment and how it behaves in a vehicle whose engine is trying its damnedest to destroy the oil coupled with an owner who likely may not know what a dipstick is are two very different things. No matter how good a lubricant is, that changes to some degree as soon as it becomes contaminated.
That transit is a perfect example of frequent lubrication changes being a good thing, even if it might be a debatable choice of lubricant.
On a slight tangent regarding vagueness with oils, went to the local supplier recently for some 10/40 oil. The oil I picked up is listed as synthetic on their internal system, classed as semi-synthetic, (with additives, whatever that means), according to the people in the office, and listed as mineral according to the vague reference I could find on their website.
No matter how good a lubricant is, that changes to some degree as soon as it becomes contaminated.That transit is a perfect example of frequent lubrication changes being a good thing, even if it might be a debatable choice of lubricant.
On a slight tangent regarding vagueness with oils, went to the local supplier recently for some 10/40 oil. The oil I picked up is listed as synthetic on their internal system, classed as semi-synthetic, (with additives, whatever that means), according to the people in the office, and listed as mineral according to the vague reference I could find on their website.
