why is this happening?

[ned]

cheers guys. I have such a wire wheel, ill drag it out and have a go with it. Bills point about it peeling itself off is the aim tho.

So im dragging the rod, as opposed to pushing it? I was pushing it up to this point. Will try drag it, and keep short arc.

 

[Kent]

You were vertical up in the first picture? On relatively thin wall with a 3.2 mm at 130?

I ain't surprised you burnt holes and got in a mess

Tip
Forget actually making stuff with mma and spend some time padding beads in degrees of difficulty that increases from downland working up to the harder positions

Oh. Amps go down as arc travels up

 

[BrokenBiker]

cheers guys. I have such a wire wheel, ill drag it out and have a go with it. Bills point about it peeling itself off is the aim tho.

So im dragging the rod, as opposed to pushing it? I was pushing it up to this point. Will try drag it, and keep short arc.

dont push the arc with anything that has a flux coating is the rule i was taught...if you are in a position where you have to push then you have to push, but ideally you want about a 70 degree angle and pull the puddle

 

[Bill Edwards]

The only time you should go for pushing is vertical up. Otherwise a little drag.

 

[ned]

nice one guys. nice one. will give that a go.

Kent, interesting that your saying turn the amps down when welding up. Regarding practice other than building stuff, will have a go at dragging this evening, if i get a chance.

 

[Kent]

Going up your actually pre- heating the parent metals as heat rises. Also less amps and a short arc allows you better control of the puddle

Always drag. You might thing v - up is not a drag but it is as far as gravity is concerned

 

[Sarto]

The best success I had in vertical up was with the rod at 90° to the piece.
And with a short short arc, as they already told you.
Mind, I tried only a few times, until now

 

[ned]

okay so, I'm coming from using mig, where the idea seems to be, to put as many amps into the metal as the metal can cope with, without burning through, in order to get the required penetration.

Its a different story with arc?

The rods will work in quite a large amp range...

2.5's seemed good at around 80

3.2's seemed happy around or just under 130

Sorry if these are dumb questions.

 

[Kent]

Use the minium you can for the parent metals not what you can for the rod.

It's like saying I can use max settings on my mig with 1 mm wire - then trying spray transfer on some 3 mm wall tube

Genrally I wouldn't get to 130 amp with a 3.2 mm unless I was pushing the limits with that rod, it wouldn't be unusual to dial in around 100 v - up on materials up to say 8 mm?

Go off what you hear and what you see

 

[Bill Edwards]

I tend to prefer the amps to be lower rather than higher and not to push the upper limit on the amps. I know people often set the amps quite high but although it does penetrate I don't think it's a good thing at all.

As to V up I tend to lower the amps to what you would do on the flat. As to the rod angle it's an interesting one. I recommended using the rod pushing a little and stick to that, but when I was taught in college the rod was being pulled much the same as on the flat. I could never get good results and ended up with a weld that resembled a bunch of grapes.
Later on I tried pushing instead after being told by an old timer that he'd been taught that way. Suddenly I was able to achieve reasonable results and that soon improved to very good results. But what's interesting is that now although I prefer to push and do better I can also make a decent weld dragging as I was originally taught!

 

[ned]

ya I actually pulled off a decentish vertical run last night on 30x30 box. I was pushing it Bill cos I never thought to try pull it, seems more natural to push it. Ill try drag it and see how that goes.

The short arc thing and keeping the amps down made it easier. Before i was just taking a chance, now i feel like ive a plan to approach it with, which is sweet.

I still wish this thread was in the beginners section.

I took some pics last night. It was dark, my phone is compensating but it could only do so much. I might take a pic of the vertical one later cos i actually did like it.

Criticism welcomed please, all info appreciated.

phone does a decent job of making it look like day

The above are 2.5 rods at +/- 80 amps

I did some practice runs. I could not draw in a straight line lol, so i veered the other way

The below are 3.2 rods at just over 100 amps. Not finding a happy amp range yet for the 3.2 rods. Always tempted to turn it up cos I enjoy turning it up.

This is where it went wrong. I said id add a piece so I could do a straight line, but, the results are gak

 

[rich r]

You're definitely getting better - it really is worth reading the tutorials on MMA, just so you're not wasting your time and getting frustrated trying to use MIG techniques that just aren't appropriate because the way the electrode behaves is totally different (ie in MMA it shrinks back as it's consumed and you need the flux to melt around the weld pool to exclude the air, so pulling works better than pushing).

Dragging the rod works very well for 6013s in most positions (except v. up), as it ensures you keep a nice short arc which keeps the slag to a minimum. Once you get the hang of moving smoothly at the right speed, you'll find the slag comes off far more easily. Even with Aldi rods, I'm finding the slag just lifts and peels itself off most of the time when I'm welding on the flat. Barely any need for cleanup.

 

[fixerupper]

+All of the above ... yes I was able to get ok welds with my old buzz box ...but once I got into mig, I cant weld with it without getting major inclusion problems ....I've been blaming the rods I get here but after reading this thread ...I think it's me......jeff

 

[ned]

Fixerupper I have decent rods, I made damn sure I got some once I realised I needed to get better at arc !
I paid 20 euros for a box of 3.2 orlinkons and my dad supplied the 2.5's, they are also decent quality.

Could not tell you the difference to be honest, but I reckon i can use all the advantages I can lay my hands on.

Rich cheers for the tips. I will have a look at those, I've read some of them, cant recall which ones right now, but I they are well written.

 

[BrokenBiker]

turn the 3.2's up to about 115-120 and see what difference it makes. some rods like more current than others...for instance if i run my parweld rods at 110 they run fine, but if i swap to super6 i need nearly 130 to get the same weld features

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Talking or 6013. The oerlikon you have are probably overcord e. Honestly I'm not a fan
Try bohler phoenix blau 6013. Seriously easy to run, or bohler fox sum.

 

[ned]

Did somewhere in the region of 8 feet on 3mm sheet last night. mixed results, but in general its all air / watertight, some neat some not so neat.

Got a good run here but then it went to hell on me. It started coughing and spluttering, even though I was consistant and conditions hadnt chaged. Why does it do that?

this was the only clean edge and I did okay with it

Making a power box for my bench, not finished yet, have to clean up the eges that will be visible.

I need a similar project using plate so that I can cover a lot of ground using fillet welds. I dont have much motivation to just weld scrap pieces together.

Might try and think of something sculptural, rather than structural, for safety reasons, lol. I have plenty of plate, just need an idea.

 

[BrokenBiker]

Make little things like dice, easy to fit up and you could weld 3 sections with fillets than put them together and weld all the outside corners