Wiring Diagram Software

[Brad93]

I'm trying to repair a machine on which a function has stopped working and i cannot figure out why.

Every switch and sensor has been tested.

Machine dates from 1997 so has had many repairs.

Is there software available to draw out a circuit diagram and test it.

If i have to employ the services of a panel builder that can reverse engineer this i will.

 

[Brad93]

It's a rats nest of wires and we have no wiring diagram.

 

[Agroshield]

The one of which I have heard, but not used, is KiCad:

| | | Documentation | KiCad

Documentation for KiCad, the EDA / CAD suite for Windows, macOS, Linux and more.

docs.kicad.org

Wiring schematic seems to be an alternate term for wiring diagram, so 'wiring schematic software' finds some possibilities.

 

[julianf]

Kicad will probably be as easy as anything else. Which won't be that easy.

You will likely have to design the parts. There may be something usable in the library, but I feel that's probably wishful thinking. You could start by just using a "connector" of the right number of terminals as your breakers, and that would, at least, allow you to map all the wires.

Kicad is very modular. It's like a suite of connected programs. You will not need most of it, but the schematic editor will do you right.


As with any CAD program, of any type, the learning curve will be steep. It is, however, well evolved software with a fair following, so, whilst it's got a learning curve, it's logical rather than madness.

 

[daleyd]

I don’t know of any program that will allow you to “test” things online , that’s where knowledge of what you are doing comes in. Skycad is free and you can draw out some pretty complex stuff.

 

[Agroshield]

I don’t know of any program that will allow you to “test” things online...

I think an alternative term for that is 'circuit simulator'. Again, search would find some possibilities (e.g. https://www.circuitlab.com/).

The third bullet point in the KiCad link above implies the schematic can be used to feed into such software (SPICE, or a derivative).

More details here: https://www.kicad.org/discover/spice/

 

[sako243]

@Brad93 I've got found Kicad etc., very satisfactory for this kind of stuff. It's a bit too free form, the diagrams will be as intelligible as you can make them.

It may be worth looking into graphviz and dot. Dot is a text file format that describes graphs (basically just relationships between stuff). Graphviz helps to visualise it all (all free).

In the simplest form you just define the connections and then a tool like graphviz generates a diagram like this.

The beauty of this setup is that once the file with all your connections is defined other tools can process it and make it all interactive etc., and render it in different ways.

I think something like this would help you to map out the connections by buzzing through chasing wires etc., and then (admittedly with a little effort but less than others I feel) get useful diagrams out of it.

 

[Agroshield]

Maybe it is also worth saying that it is likely to be an iterative process, so the ease with which anything you choose can print out a working copy on A3 paper, that you can then take to the machine and scribble on, might be a deciding factor in the eventual choice.

 

[daleyd]

I think an alternative term for that is 'circuit simulator'. Again, search would find some possibilities (e.g. https://www.circuitlab.com/).

The third bullet point in the KiCad link above implies the schematic can be used to feed into such software (SPICE, or a derivative).

More details here: https://www.kicad.org/discover/spice/

Yes I know of electronics simulators but I’ve never seen anything that you could do general electrical circuits with - at least I’ve never come across them but I guess they must exist

 

[pressbrake1]

Just create a block flow diagram of functions.
I normally express this as logic gates.
Then use a plc programming software
Laser jay has the software

I’d check every electrical connection for tightness and continuity and wire condition/ continuity at glands

Also a proximity sensor can light up but not actually latch circuit so double check

 

[daleyd]

Having looked at the picture again there’s only a handful of actual devices in there, most of the wires will be coming in from power or going off to motors etc so you can discount those straight away. (Not discount - but they are a lot of wires that do nothing in terms of control)

Your interested in what’s energising the coils of the various contactors relays timers etc and what comes from buttons and goes to lamps

It looks a lot more daunting than it probably is.

 

[Turbo]

It's a rats nest of wires and we have no wiring diagram.

View attachment 481234

Thats a normal sight in most panels, especially one nearly 30 years old.

Am I sad that I would enjoy the challenge of tracing a fault in that?

Start with a roll of masking tape and a sharpie and label each component. Then trace each wire and mark it as you test it. If there's still some trunking put each wire back in it as you go, disconnect one end to untangle it. Fit new trunking if you have to. In a couple of hours you will have a tidy panel again and tested the wiring.

 

[Seadog]

@awemawson would relish repairing that

 

[awemawson]

It looks a goddamn awful mess of a set of wiring. Whoever did it should be ashamed.

 

[daleyd]

It looks a goddamn awful mess of a set of wiring. Whoever did it should be ashamed.

Probably looked neat enough when new, panel itself looks to be decently laid out and has trunking.

Half an hour of pushing it back in the trunking would have it looking decent enough…

 

[brightspark]

Probably looked neat enough when new, panel itself looks to be decently laid out and has trunking.

Half an hour of pushing it back in the trunking would have it looking decent enough…

good luck on that one even with a proper diagram

 

[Brad93]

Probably looked neat enough when new, panel itself looks to be decently laid out and has trunking.

Half an hour of pushing it back in the trunking would have it looking decent enough…

The problem with putting the cables back in the trunking is the cables are not all numbered, and most are numbered differently at each end making it impossible to trace them by labels alone.

 

[daleyd]

The problem with putting the cables back in the trunking is the cables are not all numbered, and most are numbered differently at each end making it impossible to trace them by labels alone.

Yeah I meant after you’d traced them, or if it’s working - then a bit of judicious stuffing works wonders - it always looks worse than what it is.

 

[daleyd]

good luck on that one even with a proper diagram

It’s a few contactors and switches, it’s not going to the moon!

 

[Brad93]

It’s a few contactors and switches, it’s not going to the moon!

11 Relays
7 Contactors
3 timers
1 sensor control unit