brightspark
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might as well beIt’s a few contactors and switches, it’s not going to the moon!
keep us posted on the progress
- Thread starter Brad93
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keep us posted on the progress
daleyd
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Contractors are controlling "stuff" (i guess heating or motors)and are typically end of line, either at beginning or end ( power in or out).
Relays are the intermediate control, and probably the trickiest to trace.
As Turbo said above, be methodical and it looks easy enough. Most functions will break down logically, eg it'll be a switch controlling a relay which controls a contactor and a motor/ heating, with a lamp for feedback.
a few might be interlocked with others but a couple of sheets of a4 and you'll be sorted.
might as well be
Each to their own I guess, to me that doesn't look bad, but I'm not overly confident on domestic stuff.
Brad93
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Yes I can see what the contactors are doing that's not where i've got the problem.
It's the relays that i'm struggling with, because they all seem to be just going in circles.
Maybe we can turn this into a thread on diagnosing the problem.
daleyd
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I take it you've searched for manuals/diagrams online?
Get some masking tape and label all the components, c1, c2, r1, r2 etc as a first step if they don't already have labels.
Then start labelling the wires, bunch the 3 phase stuff together as that's not going to help you much and tape them together to get them out of the way. Then mark which wires go where, making a diagram as you go.
I'm guessing some relays are interlocked with others, hence the going round in circles - but if your logical and label stuff as you go it should drop into place.
Heating I'm guessing will be easy, sensor to a relay/contactor and the sensor will switch the contactor on/off. Maybe interlocked to a fan?
Until you do this and get it sketched out any sort of software won't help.
Brad93
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You'll have to bear with me, i'm not an electrical engineer.
P.s. if any electrical engineers do want some work, please send me a message, me and the customer are keen to get the machine working as it should.
The problem I have is with this orange button "Delayed Stop".
This is at the control panel.
It's a NO contact and it has 28VAC at it.
Tested for operation (continuity) and it's fine.
Pressing this button, causes its corresponding twin, over at a pendant control, to light up.
This button however does not light up.
The machine does not come to a delayed stop. It does nothing. This is an indexing problem, and can lead to two pieces of bread ending up in a basket or skipping a basket, reducing the quantity of dough the machine can hold.
Interestingly, pressing its twin button at the pendant (orange push button bottom of the blue enclosure), causes the button at the control panel to light up, but not the pendant button.
Weird.
Again, no delayed stop.
Hopefully you're following along.
Here is a quick video detailing the layout of the machine.
P.s. if any electrical engineers do want some work, please send me a message, me and the customer are keen to get the machine working as it should.
The problem I have is with this orange button "Delayed Stop".
This is at the control panel.
It's a NO contact and it has 28VAC at it.
Tested for operation (continuity) and it's fine.
Pressing this button, causes its corresponding twin, over at a pendant control, to light up.
This button however does not light up.
The machine does not come to a delayed stop. It does nothing. This is an indexing problem, and can lead to two pieces of bread ending up in a basket or skipping a basket, reducing the quantity of dough the machine can hold.
Interestingly, pressing its twin button at the pendant (orange push button bottom of the blue enclosure), causes the button at the control panel to light up, but not the pendant button.
Weird.
Again, no delayed stop.
Hopefully you're following along.
Here is a quick video detailing the layout of the machine.
Brad93
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No heat on this one luckily.
No trip lights coming on.
Everything is running correctly apart from the delayed stop.
daleyd
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Does the button at the pendant do anything?
Has this ever worked, or just recently stopped? Assuming it worked previously its a reasonable guess that hatever is connected to the button causing the fault? Where does the button wiring go?
My guess, from the description is that it would be going, either directly or via a relay to one of the timers?
Has this ever worked, or just recently stopped? Assuming it worked previously its a reasonable guess that hatever is connected to the button causing the fault? Where does the button wiring go?
My guess, from the description is that it would be going, either directly or via a relay to one of the timers?
I wish there were camera phones around 20 years ago when I did panel work as part of my job. They made your panel look simple! Lots of components, wiring and some plc's.
Multiple voltages such as 5v, 12v, 24v, 110v, 240v and 400v.
There were sometimes wiring diagrams but usually in German or Dutch. But if somebody had been in before you and decided to redesign the wiring thats when the fun begins.
Brad93
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Button at pendant does nothing except light up its twin button at the control panel
It stopped working about 6 months ago.
All switches have been tested.
Brad93
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This isn't my usual work, you're welcome to come have a bash!
I wasn't having a go, each to their own skills. I'm sure you can do stuff that would leave me lost.
Brad93
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I started tracing the wiring from the switches but i ran out of time to map everything today as i only had an hour. I can only work on this on a saturday morning as every other day it's in use.
I also didn't have a scrap of paper on me so had to resort to an envelope.
So i'm going to try and tidy this up and complete it next saturday.
I also didn't have a scrap of paper on me so had to resort to an envelope.
So i'm going to try and tidy this up and complete it next saturday.
Do the relays just look like 'relays', or do one or two have an adjustment knob setting a time perhaps?
Trace your button wiring towards the relays and hopefully you'll land on the right one. A tone tester is very useful for this
Trace your button wiring towards the relays and hopefully you'll land on the right one. A tone tester is very useful for this
daleyd
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Assuming the "simple" components (eg relays and buttons, which are easy to diagnose whats happening with ) are working OK, the omron sensor controller or whatever sensor its connected to might be a good candidate as that appears to be in circuit with the delayed stop. If you can get a datasheet for it and see what it's supposed to do then that might help.
I assume you checked the control cable from the pendant to the panel. There could be an intermittent break in it. Sy cable is not indestructible but it can be damaged internally and show no evidence externally.
The button not lighting up could just be a bulb.
Sorry if I'm being simplistic but we can often overlook the basics. I know I do sometimes.
The button not lighting up could just be a bulb.
Sorry if I'm being simplistic but we can often overlook the basics. I know I do sometimes.
daleyd
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That's a good shout, especially as the diagram shows them in series...
Edit - looking again, it's hard to see how that's going to work with 2 normally open switches in series...to get any output you'd need to push both at the same time?
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