2K Safety - Leason learnt

[johnc]

2K primer

I have been in a dilema as to what to use as an isolating primer over the old metallic on my '64 Rapier before a full respray.A professional autofinish supplier,in UK,recommended 2k when I asked about safety as a novice sprayer he suggested a decent filter mask and opening the garage doors would be adequate! Reading the various posts I think I'll be using cellulose and bin the 2k he sold me. Makes you wonder about experts.

 

[catchawave]

Hi Guys,

I finally got the bug sprayed and on the road.

Here are a few pics and many thanks for all the advice given on here.

I was pretty impressed with the finish and my wife is driving around all happy.

At the end of the day, To spray 2k you need the kit to keep you safe and if you arent doing it every day, the risk is less, be sensible and you will be OK,

BUT as said on here, a normal mask wont be good enough....get the gear.

 

[series2]

I've very sorry to hear about your troubles. Stay well clear of anything containing isocyanates in the future - once you are sensitised they will trigger asthma attacks.

I will sticky the thread if it's OK. It's a good warning against using those 2K carbon filter masks. The guy in the case study in Scarecrow's link (3rd post) used them too, and wasn't so lucky.

Paint shops will willingly sell 2K paint to home users, and my paint shop tried to sell me the carbon filter face mask. I do spray 2K but only with the air fed full face mask (lovely and cool in the summer) and disposable paint suit. I was lucky enough to ask on here and read up before painting, but the information is not so widely offered as the paint itself. Even then I don't like the stuff.

Polyurethane sealants contain isocyanates, whilst they are quite safe under normal circumstances, if you are sensitised to them skin contact can bring on symptoms!

 

[series2]

I have been in a dilema as to what to use as an isolating primer over the old metallic on my '64 Rapier before a full respray.A professional autofinish supplier,in UK,recommended 2k when I asked about safety as a novice sprayer he suggested a decent filter mask and opening the garage doors would be adequate! Reading the various posts I think I'll be using cellulose and bin the 2k he sold me. Makes you wonder about experts.

2k usually looks wrong on older vehicles, it gives a 'plastic' appearance to the car and hides a lot of the panel detail that older vehicles often have. I prefer celly, although when I painted my TR7 I used synthetic & 1k laquer.

Celly is easy to work with & correcting things when they go wrong is simplified. The other advantage is that celly will keep indefinately, even when thinned (in a well sealed container)

 

[catchawave]

Hi, Totally agree, 2k does give a nice finish which sometimes may look wrong on older cars but I suppose it all depends on what kind of look you are after.

I have just fitted front safari windows in my 64 splitscreen camper and resprayed the front white. Looks amazing but not like the original paint.

The Vdub scene is strange, some people go stock all out and others like to pimp.

Since my post I now have empi 8 spoke wheels on the beetle, some would say it ruins the look but I like it.

Cheers.

Andy

 

[langy]

Cellulose isn't much better i'm afraid.

I have been in a dilema as to what to use as an isolating primer over the old metallic on my '64 Rapier before a full respray.A professional autofinish supplier,in UK,recommended 2k when I asked about safety as a novice sprayer he suggested a decent filter mask and opening the garage doors would be adequate! Reading the various posts I think I'll be using cellulose and bin the 2k he sold me. Makes you wonder about experts.

 

[malcolm]

I am aware that 2K messes up your immune system and lungs, gives you long term asthma, and can kill, but I wasn't aware of issues with Cellulose apart from the paint particles and the thinners getting you high.

What's up with the stuff?

 

[mike os]

must admit I was thinking about this earlier.... so what exactly is the deak with 2k? is it the vapouror particulate that is "bad"?

my guess is particulate matter as vapour is "just" thinners? so once the overspray is gone/settled/filtered the air is then ok?

 

[malcolm]

There are some links to HSE pages on the 2K section of the paint safety page on here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/paint-safety.htm

It's to do with the isocyanates in the hardener - nasty stuff. Getting sensitised to that is a one strike and you are out thing. First post in this thread was from one of us.

 

[brightspark]

Cellulose isn't much better i'm afraid.

can u enlighten us on the dangers of celulose thinners
ive used it for many years without ill efect and apart from wearing a respirator
when using paint which stops the dust i cant see a problem

 

[langy]

I was referring to the paint, fact that its not good to breathe if it got past your mask, I've heard stuff about Celly too but i won't repeat as i can't prove it.

can u enlighten us on the dangers of celulose thinners
ive used it for many years without ill efect and apart from wearing a respirator
when using paint which stops the dust i cant see a problem

 

[jaykay]

celly might make you abit sick,from time to time.
but 2k could well kill you.

 

[malcolm]

To correct my own post earlier in this thread - 3M have confirmed by phone that 3M do not recommend ANY of their filter masks for 2K paint.

From http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/porta...9U5230GE3E02LECFTDQSO00_assetId=1180588574861 :

Paint spraying

Hazard
Inhalation of isocyanates found in 2-pack paints

Advisory PPE
Supplied air breathing apparatus

Suggested Product
Supplied Air Visor System (3M™ Visionair)
6000 Series Full Face Mask with 06971 Supplied Air System
7500 Series Half Face Mask with 06971 Supplied Air System (must be worn with eye protection e.g. goggles as shown)
Premium Line Goggles (2790A) Acetate lens

Unsuitable PPE
Particulate respirator (e.g 6922)
Gas and vapour respirator (e.g. 6941)
Mask with filters (e.g 6000 Series Full Face with cartridge filters)

 

[Chipper]

That's right, I checked out the docs on their products before - possibly because but they do sell airfed equipment now, and poss the current H&S and legislation culture etc etc. Paint shops do sell those filter masks for use with 2k though. However since 3M don't recommend them, it's another buyer beware thing...

Bottom line, airfed must be tops.
Filter mask might be OK, might not.
At the least it needs to seal properly (see ref to matey and his collapse that I made earlier).

Celly thinner MSDS always says "harmful by inhalation". No amounts or times etc given, just the blanket statement.

 

[Chickenjohn]

celly might make you abit sick,from time to time.
but 2k could well kill you.

This is the correct assesment in a nutshell. Which is why I would never use 2K unless i was wearing an air fed face mask and painting in a ventilated spray booth.

I am quite happy to spray cellulose at home in the garage, with a carbon filter mask on such as the 3M one.

 

[badersbus]

This is the correct assesment in a nutshell. Which is why I would never use 2K unless i was wearing an air fed face mask and painting in a ventilated spray booth.

I am quite happy to spray cellulose at home in the garage, with a carbon filter mask on such as the 3M one.

IMHO after 26 years in car bodyshops , all paint is bad for you 2K , celly , etc etc. Cellulose has a large content on Xylene and toulene , this does not make good reading
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002829.htm
First page on a google search.
If in doubt get the proper masks

 

[JasPALL]

I was doing a small paint job a couple of weeks ago in the shed i've got two extracter fans one large one small so on i went with the job mask on a 3M thought that will do the job and it did for the face. the bad mistake was not understanding the paint as i have always used 2K. It wasnt till i woke up in hospital that i was told that I had to be brought back to life as my lungs had shut down and didnt know that it contains isocyante or something like that so it's celluloss from now on.

Good to hear you lived to tell the tale Shoreangler.
I'm starting my journey with spraying & toyed between cellulose & 2 pack for my classic car, I'd heard of the issues with 2 pack (definately not for the faint hearted) but are there any issues with celly I should be aware of?

 

[Dune]

****** Ive been using two pack for years. I did make a face blower some time ago, copper pipe with small holes in that fitted around my head like a halo. This blew clean air down my face. It does keep a lot of the paint dust away from me but after reading the first post Ill be looking at spending some money on a proper version.

Thanks for the info.

 

[shoreangler]

Good to hear you lived to tell the tale Shoreangler.
I'm starting my journey with spraying & toyed between cellulose & 2 pack for my classic car, I'd heard of the issues with 2 pack (definately not for the faint hearted) but are there any issues with celly I should be aware of?

Jas I only use celly now with a 3m mask and dont have any problems with it.
2K does a more tougher coat but i have been scared away from it now but if you have the proper set up with the airfed mask ect then it should be fine, but celly for me i'm afraid.

 

[sep]

i did my first bit of painting last week in my garage door ajar using 2k clear. didnt use a mask or anything as wasnt told the dangers. least i know now.