6010 rods

[davidjohnperry]

Ok my welder is a thermal arc 175 te will it run a 6010 rod I know I probs could only run a 3.2 but its all I ever really need but what makes these rods hard to use bar there deep pen ect I have very limited knowledge on these

 

[Richard.]

I think wheresmejumper tried one of those on cels with not a lot of success. If I'm honest I'm not the greatest to explain why but the fast freeze characteristics require a high ocv to get them to punch right through an open root while whipping/stoving. Low ocv units struggle to even light them up let alone keep them lit. Now I don't think it's all about just ocv as I've heard facts based on units packing a 100v ocv struggling with them yet lower voltage units managing ok with them. It's a lot to do with the way it's delivered and a good arc force too. Like I say it's not my best subject knowledge which is why this is pretty vague.

 

[Bill Edwards]

You'll have to look at the specs in the manual or web page/brochure.
If it says 'cellulose compatible' it will run 6010, but a lot of inverters aren't able to as it requires something different in terms of the arc characteristics compared to other rods.

As to actually using them they are excellent for root runs because as well as having high penetration they cope with dirt/rust better and are extremely good where the joint fit-up is poor and a large gap needs to be filled. For vertical welds they can be used downhill as they are fast freeze, making vertical welding quicker and quite different. They have a rough bead appearance so are best used where they won't be visible. They're also handy for tacking work.

If your machine can't run cellulose rods find some 6011 rods which are the same but can be used on AC and inverters.
Super 6 welding rods claim to be 6010 but actually seem to be 6011 and do run off AC, the price is also reasonable. I have some myself.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5KG-Super...553987?hash=item33ac63cdc3:g:qFsAAOSwPhdVFAOi

 

[wheresmejumper]

Not a hope of 6010 on that machine,6011 should be good to go.esab nu5 are the ones to get.6011 are more of an uphill rod but still do downhill
lincoln do a 6010 called 5p which is more like a 6011 and a bit easier to run than say phoenix cel70 .
its too late for a more detailed voltage related reply!

 

[davidjohnperry]

Ok everyone cheers for the reply's I've got a 3 phase trans mig boc stick plant if I was desperate to run them just wanted to see what they felt like so 6011 rods then ill look in to them

 

[Sarto]

Apart from reading the manual , are there some tests to decide if a machine run
6010 decently?
And some hints on how set arc force... I tried to modify it on my welder, but I don't notice massive
changes.


Thanks.

 

[wheresmejumper]

Manuals will often be very vague regarding the ability to run cells
They class 6010,6011,7010,8010 all as just cellulose rods.if it can run 6011 but not the rest,they will still claim to be able to 'run cellulose'.the manuals for the thermal arc 161,arcmaster 200 s spring to mind.
properly compatible welders like the fronius transpocket 1500 will go into more detail,and will guarantee to be able to 'weld all cellulose rods,even in the vertical down position'
This is important as when welding v down you are travelling fast and stretching your arc length,putting the machine under load.its similar to whipping a v up weld,increasing arc length in the whip stage.weaker machines will extinguish the arc when arc length goes to long,it physically cant keep enough voltage present to maintain an arc.it takes more effort to keep a 6010 lit and less for a 6011.its either to do with the working voltage of the rod or the stabilisers present to keep the rod lit in the ac crossover point,i dont know.
the only way to know how well a plant will run a cell rod,or any rod really,is to weld with it.or if it has cel in its name AND from the big boys e.g. fronius,ewm,lorch,lincoln etc it will do a good job on it

 

[davidjohnperry]

I've had a look at the manual and it does not state to even run a 7018/7016 and I've run them but if that's the case ill try some 6011s then see how I get on

 

[HughF]

Esab nu5, they're the ones to get. There is a seller on eBay selling small handfuls of 3.2's.

I have spent many a long hour trying to run various 6010 on all three of my inverters and my engine drive which has 84v open circuit, the super6 do run but have a very unstable arc, the nu5 are superb.

 

[HughF]

If you want to understand more about volt/amp curves and their affect on running various rods, this video goes into a lot of detail:

 

[Sarto]

Nice to know.
So if I try to keep a long arc, if the machine is good, it will stay lit.
Otherwise it will extinguish the arc.
Test incoming.

Do the Esab Nu5 electrodes cost an eye or are they quite affordable?

Thanks to all.

 

[wheresmejumper]

20 kg of nu5 should be about €80.
A machine is useless if it cant long arc a cell.its essential to what they are used for.there is no point n saying it can run them as long as you keep a tight tight arc.ive heard that spouted by a supposed 20 year veteran on an american forum.if you cant whip with a cell,then no,it cant run them as far as im concerned.

 

[davidjohnperry]

Would a migtronic transformer type 200 amp welder run um or I have a 3 phase thermal arc inverter run em.

 

[Richard.]

Would a migtronic transformer type 200 amp welder run um or I have a 3 phase thermal arc inverter run em.

As said its best to get a box and try them to see.

 

[HughF]

I can spare you a few 2.5 nu5 if you are ever along the a4 towards bath? I've got half a can I got from eBay a while back...

We don't get over to bristol often, I could even post you a few?

 

[wheresmejumper]

The transformer,if dc,should do a fair job with all rods.the 3 phase thermal arc inverters ive used are good with 6011 but not 6010

 

[davidjohnperry]

@HughF cheers for that mate but id buy and try as boc is just down the road and but if u ever need a student let me know skill and knowledge is worth money.
@wheresmejumper all my machines are dc bar the 3 phase boc transmig I think that's ac

 

[Bill Edwards]

If you can't get anything suitable locally try the nu5 on eBay - the £5 will let you have a go and see how you like them. It must work out quite expensive per weight buying them in tiny quantities but it'll be enough to see what you think. The nu5 are absolutely lovely to use.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/25-ESAB-3...036713?hash=item235754e4a9:g:PfUAAOSw9N1V2J2c

 

[BigDan83]

I cant see Nu5 working on that machine. Tried them on the TA161. didnt run very well at all. Very stop start. I would defo try a couple out before buying a 20kg box.

 

[HughF]

Nu5 (and most other 6011) run on practically anything, even my cheapanese 125a no brand inverter ran then without fault.