6013 root pass on pipe

[Tigman]

I was taught with 6013 rods at St Albans college ,got city and guilds and passed a test 36 years ago , I still weld pipe with 6013 2.5 , 2.5 gap 1.5 land , i use bohler rods and amps set at 60 , 65 may turn up over the top as said , if im rotating i always come up the side of the pipe I find I get better penetration , get that keyhole going , make sure both walls are melting in , weave a bit if you have to !

 

[Arcburner]

Is the wps saying 6013 root? If not - got get some filarc 56 and go 7016 root - it's much much easier...

I can get my hands on some 3.2 filarc 56s what gap and land setup would you recomend for this ?

 

[Memmeddu]

I can get my hands on some 3.2 filarc 56s what gap and land setup would you recomend for this ?

It's a low hydrogen electrode ,I think that 90 or 100A might work ,gap I don't really know how this rods works data sheet says that is a fully penetration rod so you might try using the diameter of the rod as spacer , landing the same ,try on a coupon and look at the results if is good for the requirements you can go straight using this parameter

 

[Arcburner]

Status update ;

Tried the 6013 again root fill and cap . Still not getting consistancy inside as u can see from the pics . 2.5 electrode 2.5 gap 2.5 land bohler fox sum

 

[Dcal]

That's nearly there and far better than I'd manage.

Try it with a 2.5 filarc.
Weldpro will have them.

I hate 6013s

 

[Arcburner]

That's nearly there and far better than I'd manage.

Try it with a 2.5 filarc.
Weldpro will have them.

I hate 6013s

Thanks dcal yeah need to get some 2.5 and have a go . I used to like 6013 untill last week lol . But never used them for roots i always used tig

 

[Brad93]

I can get my hands on some 3.2 filarc 56s what gap and land setup would you recomend for this ?

3.2mm gap, 1.6mm land, 35° degree bevel +/- 2.5°

110A ish DCEN

 

[Brad93]

Status update ;

Tried the 6013 again root fill and cap . Still not getting consistancy inside as u can see from the pics . 2.5 electrode 2.5 gap 2.5 land bohler fox sum

You’re wasting your time with those FOX rods.

They. Have. Not. Got. Enough. Cellulose.

Look at the data sheet. http://www.alruqee.com/Userfiles/Product/TablePdf/03112015000000B_Boehler FOX SUM_ce.pdf

EN ISO 2560-A
E 38 0 RR 12

You know what that means?!

RUTILE COATING

You need E 38 0 RC 12

You‘re beating a dead horse at this stage.

 

[Arcburner]

You’re wasting your time with those FOX rods.

They. Have. Not. Got. Enough. Cellulose.

Look at the data sheet. http://www.alruqee.com/Userfiles/Product/TablePdf/03112015000000B_Boehler FOX SUM_ce.pdf



You know what that means?!

RUTILE COATING

You need E 38 0 RC 12

You‘re beating a dead horse at this stage.

I have realised this brad like i said in previous post i have some 7016 being delivered to have a go and managed to talk my boss into giving them a go for root with 6013 fill and cap this was another experiment today as these 6013 are the only electrodes available in our fab shop at the moment as up untill now we only used stick for flanges all butts are done tig all the way through thanks

 

[Memmeddu]

I hate 6013s

Me to
I use them only to weld sheet metal , otherwise 7018 or also bad storaged wet E6010 are better to run 6013 out of position

 

[Brad93]

6013s are fantastic in many situations. Repair work, light gauge or vessels they’re ideal. Easy to use, high quality weld deposit, very forgiving.

I keep some Lincoln Arcweld and Hilco on the shelf.

9/10 though I’m reaching for the Filarc or OK 48.00

 

[bwservices]

I have realised this brad like i said in previous post i have some 7016 being delivered to have a go and managed to talk my boss into giving them a go for root with 6013 fill and cap this was another experiment today as these 6013 are the only electrodes available in our fab shop at the moment as up untill now we only used stick for flanges all butts are done tig all the way through thanks

keep going with what you have
you need to be able to weld with whatever rod you are handed
a slight amount of cellulose makes a lot less difference to the results compared to the hand that lays them
you are looking good

 

[HughF]

6013s are fantastic in many situations. Repair work, light gauge or vessels they’re ideal. Easy to use, high quality weld deposit, very forgiving.

I keep some Lincoln Arcweld and Hilco on the shelf.

9/10 though I’m reaching for the Filarc or OK 48.00

Same here - I've got a lot of 56 in stock, use them a lot now. Great rod.

 

[HughF]

keep going with what you have
you need to be able to weld with whatever rod you are handed
a slight amount of cellulose makes a lot less difference to the results compared to the hand that lays them
you are looking good

I'm personally of the opinion that this is a load of tosh.... Get the right rod for the job at hand. Open root stick in the UK/Europe - that'll be filarc 56...

 

[bwservices]

have you arc welded pipe professionally hugh?
crap rods
crap gaps
crap access
if you cant weld with whats given to you,you cant weld,full stop.next welder please

 

[HughF]

have you arc welded pipe professionally hugh?
crap rods
crap gaps
crap access
if you cant weld with whats given to you,you cant weld,full stop.next welder please

I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say no. I'm a skilled tig hand and I've worked in the fabrication and MRO industries on non-ferrous.

But it that's the mentality of the pipe industry then I'm glad I've never had to work that... But to be honest, I'm not surprised.

Crap rods = price the jobs properly and buy your welders better rods
Crap gaps = train your fitters to do a better job
Crap access = engineer your runs so the access isn't crap

Buying cheap rods and giving welders crap gaps then having to hire the most expensive, skilled guys to spend all day struggling, hardly a recipe for efficiency.

 

[Munkul]

have you arc welded pipe professionally hugh?
crap rods
crap gaps
crap access
if you cant weld with whats given to you,you cant weld,full stop.next welder please

I don't weld pipe... but I look after the WPS and quals for our lads, and have dealt with plenty welding co-ordinators and quality control people from other welding companies. Anywhere you want x-ray quality welds consistently, you have to give your lads the BEST chance of hitting perfect weld after weld, because re-works are expensive and time consuming.
So you know what gives them the best chance of this? - buying them quality consumables. It's cheaper than a re-work.
I know of one shop that the lads basically told management they could only buy one type of 7018 low hy (I think it was a Lincoln or Bohler rod, not sure). At the end of the day, the rod is the cheapest part of qualifying a WPS or quality controlling a coded job, and they were fine with this. It's probably the best repair shop for pressure systems within 200 miles of me, and they aren't over the top, either.

If you're not interested in quality rods, then you're also not interested in quality control for work on pressure/chemical systems.

 

[bwservices]

I don't weld pipe... but I look after the WPS and quals for our lads, and have dealt with plenty welding co-ordinators and quality control people from other welding companies. Anywhere you want x-ray quality welds consistently, you have to give your lads the BEST chance of hitting perfect weld after weld, because re-works are expensive and time consuming.
So you know what gives them the best chance of this? - buying them quality consumables. It's cheaper than a re-work.
I know of one shop that the lads basically told management they could only buy one type of 7018 low hy (I think it was a Lincoln or Bohler rod, not sure). At the end of the day, the rod is the cheapest part of qualifying a WPS or quality controlling a coded job, and they were fine with this. It's probably the best repair shop for pressure systems within 200 miles of me, and they aren't over the top, either.

If you're not interested in quality rods, then you're also not interested in quality control for work on pressure/chemical systems.

they can be perfectly fine 6013 rods,any major brand. but you cannot manipulate them like a cell. if your angle gets too far off, slag.
rc or rr will make little difference.
if there is poor access to a butt,which is very common in positional welding, 6013 will make that root harder to put in than a cell.but if youre good you get on with it,not moan about it(well you do moan a bit). or ask for an easier rod to weld it with.
welders who can pass xray on a weld test are ten a penny. doing it in the real word under harsh conditions is very different.
theres not many perfect world scenarios on site

 

[davidjohnperry]

I'm not a pipe welder per say pipe fitter ex any ways when I was a fitter for a few pipe welders days gone by the first lad I helped used Tig all the way from slip flanges to open root butts the next set of lads in the plant room used murex 6013 on all types and the mechanical fitters for another firm used 6011 rods and murex 6013 it all depends on the company the client and the wps I still practice from time to time and I'll sling anything even use a lo high down hand rod some times I know this will get some attention 8018 filarc something got quite a few from a old pipe welder

 

[davidjohnperry]

Just looked at my old tech manuals from the UK pipelines in the 70s I'll post some of the information