6013 vertical

[Munkul]

the general consensus we reached on a different thread was if you're welding s275 steel (bog standard mild steel in other words) and are careful keeping your rods warm and dry, then you won't have a problem using 7018.

*insert liability disclaimer here*

 

[tom 748]

up the amps with 3.2

 

[simpjd]

the general consensus we reached on a different thread was if you're welding s275 steel (bog standard mild steel in other words) and are careful keeping your rods warm and dry, then you won't have a problem using 7018.

*insert liability disclaimer here*

What do you mean “won’t have a problem”? Do you mean by not using an oven?

 

[Munkul]

it's complicated. This thread has some good posts (disregarding the TWI graph which I now realise is BS)

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/7018-question.86810/page-2

 

[Mattycoops43]

Can I hijack slightly? I am using 6013, and struggling to get anything like a decent weld when trying vertical. Is 6013 a good rod for vertical, or is there an easier rod to use?

Thanks

Matt

 

[davidjohnperry]

Is it a cheap 6013 like a screw fix or machine mart rod

 

[Munkul]

I find it quite hard, 6013 is more fluid than 7018. It's possible, but you need the amps as low as you can get away with (5-10 less than normal, say) and good technique.

easiest rod is 7018. it's a huge difference.

 

[Mattycoops43]

Is it a cheap 6013 like a screw fix or machine mart rod

I have been buying from Oxford Welding as it's where I got the welder. They are stamped up AWS. They weld beautifully on the flat. I would not be surprised to be told it's because I am rubbish!

Matt

 

[Bill Edwards]

Technique needs to be correct, then it's practice, practice and practice.

Although 7018 rods are superior in some/many respects vertical up is one time when I'm always happy with 6013, you can do perfect runs in the vertical position once you've got the hang of it.

Not too many amps, a bit of 'push' angle on the rod and the correct speed and it'll click into place. I can still remember that it took me a good while to crack it but when you do you'll wonder why you ever found it hard.
Simple straightforward root run, no waving the rod around. Then I was taught to use a weaved cap which has always served me well, it's essential that you pause for what seems like an age then whip straight across to the other side, pause and back again - don't linger in the middle of the weld or the result will be a mess. Don't try to go up in big steps either.

And like I say, practice...

 

[davidjohnperry]

I have been buying from Oxford Welding as it's where I got the welder. They are stamped up AWS. They weld beautifully on the flat. I would not be surprised to be told it's because I am rubbish!

Matt

Aws aye bet there super 6 welding rods pile of rubbish I've used them only good for stirring paint

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

AWS are under the bohler brand are they not?

 

[davidjohnperry]

Really ? @Arclikeharrypotter . I mean your knowledge is far superior to mine but yhe batch of super six had that stamped on them when I last used them intact I still got a few in the rod oven use em for tacking or as spacers

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

I think I stand corrected @davidjohnperry think AWS just stands for the what system of classification.

If you are using rubbish 6013 you will struggle. Get something from murex, or bohler those 2 I've found always consistent and there budget 6013 are good.

 

[davidjohnperry]

Agree rods I've used bohler murex esab orlerkin any real name brand rod which in the grand scheme of things is not expensive 6013 wise and a little practice running vertical up will be a lot easier

 

[Memmeddu]

Can I hijack slightly? I am using 6013, and struggling to get anything like a decent weld when trying vertical. Is 6013 a good rod for vertical, or is there an easier rod to use?

Thanks

Matt

Check out on YouTube ChuckE2009 made a video about vertical up with E7018 ,same rules for 6013 , maybe down little bit more with your amperage because you need to have a cold puddle , doing vertical up you have more penetration than same settings on flat position .
Short arc and little bit of practice ,in the angles you must remember that you have to don't wait to much in the center but wait on the sides of the beads

 

[Mattycoops43]

Thanks guys. I will pick up some better rods and have another go at it. I think I have the basics of the technique down, but I know I need loads of stick time.

 

[Liquid Metal]

A lower amperage does give better control when vertical welding, but dont go too low or youll end up with metal deposited either side with a line of slag up the middle. Most places ive worked before now have used Vodex for anything other than low-hy welding, a couple have used bohler and fincord too.
A good starting point for a vertical fillet using 3.2mm is 115 amps, and with 2.5mm, 90 amps is a good starting point on DCEP.
If the set your using has arc force control, dont set it too high, or holding a short arc will up the amperage and youll end up too hot. 25-50% works well most of the time.

Dont go weaving any wider than 3times the dia of the rod (its core, not including the flux), or it can cause problems. Each time you come across, tracing the front edge of the puddle should progress you up the joint around the right amount.
A real short arc is what you need though, pausing for a second or two each side, but spending as little time in the middle of the bead (as said by others above) is what you want to be doing. Not pausing each side leaves undercut. When youve finished, the slag "humped up" in the middle looking like blobs one above each other is ideal.
Dont use the whipping technique seen on some videos though, thats used with a different type of rod altogether and will leave you with porosity and slag inclusions.

Thats roughly the way i was tought and still go about it, but everybody finds their own subtle differences in technique along the way though. At some point something will click and it all falls into place

 

[Mattycoops43]

I did some practise today. I had some advice from a 'proper' welder (over a Chinese meal so he only saw some pics) I was going up in amps trying to get it to wet in to the base metal, but he said go the other way so it doesn't blow apart. I'll post a before and after pic. Mostly 2.5mm 6013, I was on 60A and now I am down to just under 50A. Second pic is the before pic. Joining two pieces of square tubing. Top pic is todays practise, using a big piece of box as a blank canvas. I was working from right to left, single runs, no weaving. The last run on the left i tried a triangle action to spread it a bit wider but that did not work. The big flat weld is a horizontal weld with 3.2 I did to weld two pieces of scrap together. This is the same rods I have used for everything.

Matt

 

[davidjohnperry]

I don't class my self as s welder but depending on your machine I would say 50 or 60 amps is cold for a 2.5 in the vertical up I'd say nearer 70 + amps would be closer but again all machines are different

 

[Mattycoops43]

I don't class my self as s welder but depending on your machine I would say 50 or 60 amps is cold for a 2.5 in the vertical up I'd say nearer 70 + amps would be closer but again all machines are different

The bottom pic is nearer to that Amperage, and the bits that are ok look better than the top pic, but it's so full of holes. Do you think it's technique letting me down, and running it cold makes it easier to avoid the holes? Top pic does look cold to me, but then I have seen lots of pics of vertical where they say that is what it should be. ???