8010 ?

[Bill Edwards]

I find it surprising that we don't see the Nu5 used a lot more in general repair work as they're very decent.

 

[wheresmejumper]

The training in use of cellulose rods is probably the reason.
lots of general repair welders havent even heard of cellulose rods,not to mind how to use them

 

[TechnicAl]

They are very,very common in uk and ireland.they mightnt be as clean as a good 6010 but they are 1/4 - 1/5 the price,nu5

In the UK the sales of cellulosics are less than 5% of 6013s.....I cant remember the exact numbers
The price depends on the contract.......they cost about the same to make as any other cellulosic, in fact due to the low production they may cost more.

 

[TechnicAl]

Ive found the figure which are now a few years old but I doubt if there has been much change
These are the quantities sold in UK by all the major European suppliers (added together) in a year

6010/11 tonnes 46 (1.3%)
7010+ tonnes 180 (5.1%)
6013 tonnes 1700 (48.6%)
7016/8 tonnes 1000 (28.6%)
7024 tonnes 170 (4.8%)
8018+ tonnes 400 (11.4%)

figures rounded off

The figures dont include imported products but the likelihood is that imports wont increase the number just replace those sold by the major suppliers

 

[wheresmejumper]

What % of welding done in the uk is open root pipe?
almost always,when 6011 is used to root,6013 are used to fill and cap.take a 6 inch schd80 pipe
maybe 8 6011s to root,40 6013 to complete.so even in the main specialised area they are used,6013 are massively dominant when compared. (7018 normally only over a tig root,or a 7016/18 root)
and take stoving,it is so rare (in general) that there is a substantially better chance of getting into the freemasons than getting a sniff into it

 

[wheresmejumper]

Ive found the figure which are now a few years old but I doubt if there has been much change
These are the quantities sold in UK by all the major European suppliers (added together) in a year

6010/11 tonnes 46 (1.3%)
7010+ tonnes 180 (5.1%)
6013 tonnes 1700 (48.6%)
7016/8 tonnes 1000 (28.6%)
7024 tonnes 170 (4.8%)
8018+ tonnes 400 (11.4%)

figures rounded off

The figures dont include imported products but the likelihood is that imports wont increase the number just replace those sold by the major suppliers

6011 nu5 are imported from brazil iirc.somewhere in sth america anyway

 

[TechnicAl]

6011 nu5 are imported from brazil iirc.somewhere in sth america anyway

Esab sell them in UK so it doesnt matter where they are made......their sales are included in my figures

They were made in Hungary but that could have changed

 

[TechnicAl]

What % of welding done in the uk is open root pipe?
almost always,when 6011 is used to root,6013 are used to fill and cap.take a 6 inch schd80 pipe
maybe 8 6011s to root,40 6013 to complete.so even in the main specialised area they are used,6013 are massively dominant when compared. (7018 normally only over a tig root,or a 7016/18 root)
and take stoving,it is so rare (in general) that there is a substantially better chance of getting into the freemasons than getting a sniff into it

Not much pipe welded these days....and most of the welds made with wire (solid and FCW)
I can get you into Freemasons but stoving is a different matter

 

[TechnicAl]

The biggest project I know of is the replacement of old gas mains in London and they are not welding at all (or very little)
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...ns-without-digging-or-disruption-8934159.html

http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/In-your-area/Projects/London-Gas-Mains-Replacement/

 

[wheresmejumper]

Thats my general point.its only a small area of a small(ish) industry, when you look at how seasonal pipework is,and how many pipe welders are out of work at some point in the year.but in that area they are a common rod.i know a retailer in his 70's who retired last year,but was telling me a story about 4 yrs ago i think.
cetb/citb training body in Ireland were buying tons of cel70 phoenix at a time,from him.he told the head instructor that sales of the cel70 had fallen hugely since nu5 had come on.so much that besides the training centres they barely did any trade in the phoenix.everyone was switching to nu5.nu5 were 80 quid for 20kg ,cel70 were 110 for 5.5kg.procedures were getting rewritten to include them.now every single training centre(all asme9) use nu5 for vert up.
on top of that,they are so much less stress on a plant that most decent inverters can run them.maybe 5% of macines out there can properly burn a cel70

 

[wheresmejumper]

But they are still not as clean a rod as a phoenix or lincoln xx10.the ultra crtitcal work will not really look at the price as much

 

[Sarto]

What make a rod "more clean"?
By the way, after the long arc test, now I know my welder can't burn well 6010 (like 95% of the inverters)

 

[TechnicAl]

I didnt know there was a training centre in Ireland. There are no training centres in England etc. The contractors would NOT use a welder from a training centre. Its a tight circle of men who learn from older hands and only get jobs through friends. Its not what you know its who you know.
Ive lost contact with them all and I think the main man at Murphys has retired.

They used to phone me when they got a job and I would estimate how many rods they were going to need. It was always much less than they thought. So they could do less tests they wanted tested product with as few batches as possible. They might buy double what I told them just to make sure. Thats why there are surplus rods sold cheap.

 

[wheresmejumper]

There are probably 5 maybe 6 training centres testing asme9 pipe.14 in a class most of who would be welding 5 to 20 years.a mix of people either first time in there or just refreshing.its a 9 month course so a huge downturn in income for someones year,so its only motivated people,could be waiting 2-3 years to get in.
Its essential imo for newer processes like the stt root fluxcore fill/cap i did there.
its not an entitlement to a job,any of the papers.nothing comes close to on the job experience.

(There is a similar setup in england,a 2 or 3 month course in stoving that is still a little hush hush)

 

[wheresmejumper]

What make a rod "more clean"?
By the way, after the long arc test, now I know my welder can't burn well 6010 (like 95% of the inverters)

Clean as in leaving a nicer looking weld,visibly also under xray.less imperfections.less cleaning up with grinder,less slag trapped in the toes of the weld etc

 

[TechnicAl]

There are probably 5 maybe 6 training centres testing asme9 pipe.14 in a class most of who would be welding 5 to 20 years.a mix of people either first time in there or just refreshing.its a 9 month course so a huge downturn in income for someones year,so its only motivated people,could be waiting 2-3 years to get in.
Its essential imo for newer processes like the stt root fluxcore fill/cap i did there.
its not an entitlement to a job,any of the papers.nothing comes close to on the job experience.

(There is a similar setup in england,a 2 or 3 month course in stoving that is still a little hush hush)

why are they training when there is little or no work........strange

 

[wheresmejumper]

It gets official unemployment figures down to the benefit of those in government.
people trained go on to employment in other countries,further reducing unemployment figures.its detrimental to the future of the country but bottom line figures are all thats being targeted right now.no foresight.