Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[willie.macleod]

High fast-charge rates though....Still suggest that doing this isn't the best for the battery long term. I suspect the monitoring system will record & file every charge - how long and at what rate.... & the cynic in me knows that if a punter were to fast-charge regularly & then have a battery fail - that this will then mitigate or invalidate some or all of the warranty (read the small print etc which no-one does cos it'd take a week!)

Is the EV Battery warranty a Pro-Rata warranty (like the industrial traction packs are)?
I'd be surprised if they'd missed that clause out.

You can rapid charge no problem at all without it affecting your battery warranty. Consumer protection law would take a dim view of consumers being expected to understand and carefully monitor charge curves!

Yes battery warranties may be pro-rated, in practice those that have had replacement packs have found in some cases they got a new pack or in others individual faulty cells were replaced.

 

[bricol]

I’m not sure that discharge rates are an issue - in normal driving how often do you use full throttle in an ice vehicle?

Weeellllllll . . .

Nearly every roundabout most mornings Only up to 60mph - which does seem to confuse/upset other road users - they pass me on the dual carriageway before, they then brake 4 miles too soon, I sail past them, round the roundabout, and enjoy myself on the exit . . . repeat for the next three round abouts There are some green plated vehicles that the drivers, by the third roundabout, are deploying much more energy than the previous two as they come whooshing past

This morning I was making nice rumbly V8 noises up through the manual gears . . . the rest of the week it was high powered 4-cylinder Rover noises as I enjoyed the benefits of over 400bhp/tonne

 

[daleyd]

I think that's pretty much just what I already said!
The charge curves I've seen (& that are in the manuals for the chargers of lead-acid traction stuff) mirrors the L-ion curve in shape (the numbers will of course be different, as they will be with other cell types like Ni-Cad which have a higher charge voltage than Lead-acid).

High fast-charge rates though....Still suggest that doing this isn't the best for the battery long term. I suspect the monitoring system will record & file every charge - how long and at what rate.... & the cynic in me knows that if a punter were to fast-charge regularly & then have a battery fail - that this will then mitigate or invalidate some or all of the warranty (read the small print etc which no-one does cos it'd take a week!)

Is the EV Battery warranty a Pro-Rata warranty (like the industrial traction packs are)?
I'd be surprised if they'd missed that clause out.

I don’t know is the short answer - really unless you are in the know about lithium ion chemistry and suchlike anything else is just guesswork. Comparing it to lead acid and making assumptions about any similarities just seems a bit pointless given they are vastly different technologies.

Also, given li-on isn’t entirely new (albeit in different applications) I think there’s enough real world data about for manufacturers to go on to decide they will last in ev use and how best to set up things like BMS to extend their life.

 

[GRW]

I don’t know is the short answer - really unless you are in the know about lithium ion chemistry and suchlike anything else is just guesswork. Comparing it to lead acid and making assumptions about any similarities just seems a bit pointless given they are vastly different technologies.

Also, given li-on isn’t entirely new (albeit in different applications) I think there’s enough real world data about for manufacturers to go on to decide they will last in ev use and how best to set up things like BMS to extend their life.

I'm afraid I'm not as trusting as you - I'm more cynical.
Experience has taught me that whatever they can get away with, they will (& they have VERY expensive Lawyers to ensure they get away with a lot more than we ever will).... so I tend to look out for what information & detail they DON'T supply, rather than what they do supply.
The golden rule is.... if its not specifically included always work on the basis that its left out on purpose, & for reasons that aren't to your benefit .

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I'm afraid I'm not as trusting as you - I'm more cynical. realistic.

FTFY.

 

[daleyd]

I'm afraid I'm not as trusting as you - I'm more cynical.
Experience has taught me that whatever they can get away with, they will (& they have VERY expensive Lawyers to ensure they get away with a lot more than we ever will).... so I tend to look out for what information & detail they DON'T supply, rather than what they do supply.
The golden rule is.... if its not specifically included always work on the basis that its left out on purpose, & for reasons that aren't to your benefit .

I don’t know you, and you don’t know me so I’m not one to judge your level of cynicism - but to think that for one minute I don’t think that someone selling me something is trying to screw me over them you have massively misjudged me.

I suspect I’m equally as cynical as you, maybe even more so, but at the end of the day if you want to sit and think about the details of every aspect of everything you can probably find reasons not to do or buy just about anything.

Me - I’ve got better things to do and having that 8 year warranty is, by any measure better than a 3 year one. As ever, ymmv.

I could quite easily have dropped the same amount of money on car with no warranty. Take your pick really.

 

[james butler]

You can rapid charge no problem at all without it affecting your battery warranty. Consumer protection law would take a dim view of consumers being expected to understand and carefully monitor charge curves!

Yes battery warranties may be pro-rated, in practice those that have had replacement packs have found in some cases they got a new pack or in others individual faulty cells were replaced.

i would associate repeated rapid charging as a bit like bouncing an engine off its limiter repeatedly.......
yes you can do it, is it a good idea to keep doing it???
nope, not if you want it to last

 

[GRW]

I don’t know you, and you don’t know me so I’m not one to judge your level of cynicism - but to think that for one minute I don’t think that someone selling me something is trying to screw me over them you have massively misjudged me.

I suspect I’m equally as cynical as you, maybe even more so, but at the end of the day if you want to sit and think about the details of every aspect of everything you can probably find reasons not to do or buy just about anything.

Me - I’ve got better things to do and having that 8 year warranty is, by any measure better than a 3 year one. As ever, ymmv.

I could quite easily have dropped the same amount of money on car with no warranty. Take your pick really.

Hey, you can afford it, you've made your choice & you're happy with it.
I've no issues with that at all.
Wasn't implying anything either, just saying generally that the devil is in the (small print or no print) detail .

E.g. they don't make it obvious that some batteries get a Rating based on a 20-hr discharge, while others rare on a 5-hr discharge (nor what that actually means).... & the buying public (even trades) are often blissfully unaware, so don't even realise there's a question to ask. They see an AH rating of X, and assume that the X on this one, is the same as X on a different one.

A Canadian Co called Rolls made (make?) pretty pricey monobloc 6v batteries for boats, off-grid power etc. They are seen as a premium product (& they are AFAIK a well-made battery.
But... I you dig you find a 20-hr discharge test is used to rate them..... meaning for a lot less money you can get a traction cell pack of seemingly the same rating.... that are actually much stronger (5hr discharge load to assess AH rating).
I saw plenty of site with pricey Rolls packs, & not one of the owner/users knew the difference existed.

 

[daleyd]

Hey, you can afford it, you've made your choice & you're happy with it.
I've no issues with that at all.
Wasn't implying anything either, just saying generally that the devil is in the (small print or no print) detail .

E.g. they don't make it obvious that some batteries get a Rating based on a 20-hr discharge, while others rare on a 5-hr discharge (nor what that actually means).... & the buying public (even trades) are often blissfully unaware, so don't even realise there's a question to ask. They see an AH rating of X, and assume that the X on this one, is the same as X on a different one.

A Canadian Co called Rolls made (make?) pretty pricey monobloc 6v batteries for boats, off-grid power etc. They are seen as a premium product (& they are AFAIK a well-made battery.
But... I you dig you find a 20-hr discharge test is used to rate them..... meaning for a lot less money you can get a traction cell pack of seemingly the same rating.... that are actually much stronger (5hr discharge load to assess AH rating).
I saw plenty of site with pricey Rolls packs, & not one of the owner/users knew the difference existed.

I’m not entirely sure what that has to do with an EV, other than being associated with batteries. An EV will give you a certain amount of miles per charge. That’s all I’m interested in, as long as I get what’s claimed, or thereabouts (and it lasts for the 8 year warranty period), then as far as I’m concerned that’s all I need to know.

That’s it, anything else is hidden in the engineering details of the batteries, which unless you’re going to delve into will remain a mystery. Kind of the same as I don’t need to know how variable valve timing or the crankcase breather works on an ice car. As long as the engine goes when I want it to, and stops then great.

You might confuse that with some lack of cynicism, or being somehow blasé but to me it’s just something I don’t care to worry about. If the cars a lemon, then so be it. There’s been enough ICE lemons made over the years.

I think the first teslas are coming up for 10 years or so now, there are cases of premature failure I’m sure but I haven’t heard of wholesale early failures, but maybe I’ve missed something?

 

[Bornfree]

I think the first teslas are coming up for 10 years or so now, there are cases of premature failure I’m sure but I haven’t heard of wholesale early failures, but maybe I’ve missed something?

I think it's more like 12/13 years now. My mate MOTs an early one and the range has dropped to around 20 miles but the lady who owns it just drives into town does her shopping and drives home so it's not worth replacing the batteries.

 

[daleyd]

I think it's more like 12/13 years now. My mate MOTs an early one and the range has dropped to around 20 miles but the lady who owns it just drives into town does her shopping and drives home so it's not worth replacing the batteries.

2014 in the uk from a quick google of model s (their first mainstream car released over here)-

20 miles seems a bit low, another article suggests that the majority of even high milers will still return over 200 miles range?

A Study on Real-Life Tesla Battery Deterioration

Tesla cars are known for their long range, providing hundreds of miles on a single full charge—but how does the battery hold up after years of use? To find out, we've analysed real-life data submitted by hundreds of car owners to determine how Tesla batteries deteriorate over time.

www.nimblefins.co.uk

 

[Bornfree]

2014 in the uk from a quick google of model s (their first mainstream car released over here)-

20 miles seems a bit low, another article suggests that the majority of even high milers will still return over 200 miles range?

A Study on Real-Life Tesla Battery Deterioration

Tesla cars are known for their long range, providing hundreds of miles on a single full charge—but how does the battery hold up after years of use? To find out, we've analysed real-life data submitted by hundreds of car owners to determine how Tesla batteries deteriorate over time.

www.nimblefins.co.uk

We are out for a drink tonight I will find out the year. But I thought he said 12 years old.

 

[m_c]

Hey, you can afford it, you've made your choice & you're happy with it.
I've no issues with that at all.
Wasn't implying anything either, just saying generally that the devil is in the (small print or no print) detail .

E.g. they don't make it obvious that some batteries get a Rating based on a 20-hr discharge, while others rare on a 5-hr discharge (nor what that actually means).... & the buying public (even trades) are often blissfully unaware, so don't even realise there's a question to ask. They see an AH rating of X, and assume that the X on this one, is the same as X on a different one.

A Canadian Co called Rolls made (make?) pretty pricey monobloc 6v batteries for boats, off-grid power etc. They are seen as a premium product (& they are AFAIK a well-made battery.
But... I you dig you find a 20-hr discharge test is used to rate them..... meaning for a lot less money you can get a traction cell pack of seemingly the same rating.... that are actually much stronger (5hr discharge load to assess AH rating).
I saw plenty of site with pricey Rolls packs, & not one of the owner/users knew the difference existed.

Due to Lithium batteries being more efficient with lower internal resistances, the discharge time isn't as significant in terms of calculating capacity.

 

[premmington]

We are out for a drink tonight I will find out the year. But I thought he said 12 years old.

What no invite...

You are local too...

I can drink beer - I'm good at it....

 

[addjunkie]

Cheers...starting to sound more complicated than I was hoping!

I guess the question is....if I'm installing a 32A socket on a wall what do I need to do and is that different to installing a dedicated EV charger?

I was just hoping to connect a 32A socket to the existing dedicated 10mm feed and that would kind of be it really...but now I'm wondering if theres more that needs to be done?

I've got a mate who's an electrician....time for a phone call me thinks!

I thought similar, whats the big deal a 32amp socket no issue, but Ive a buisness grant tofit charge point to the holiday cottages. Apparently the dnos want to check your main fuse etc to make sure your connection is up to the job, inspection was free. Apparently its not uncommon for older properties to be on a shared supp,y which might not be man enough for the extra 32 amp draw. So would need upgrading, possibly at your cost, or theirs, not sure. Ive opted for a https://gozerocharge.com/ charge pointas its the only one I could find where there app allows me to charge holiday cottage guests with out actually interacting with them. This allows me to also set the tariff. Then get money to my bank account. So others could charge on yours and pay!

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

They sell a 32a to Type2 cable so I'm thinking it might be fine...a lot less hassle as a 32a socket is just a socket!

Plugging it into a 13a plug also works so it can handle 240v ac I think.

 

[daleyd]

They sell a 32a to Type2 cable so I'm thinking it might be fine...a lot less hassle as a 32a socket is just a socket!

Plugging it into a 13a plug also works so it can handle 240v ac I think.

Yeah you can also get a 13a charger (we picked one up and it lives in the car in case of emergencies, but never needed it) obviously if you want to take advantage of any cheap rate tariff that makes it more difficult but if your not bothered about that then no problem to do so. Saves the cost of installing a charger but is obviously slower to add miles (it maxes out at about 10A, so roughly 1/3 as fast as a 7kW charger - prob around 10 miles per hour??)

 

[Bornfree]

What no invite...

You are local too...

I can drink beer - I'm good at it....

The last time I went drinking in Lynn I ended up getting headbutted in the lattice house.

 

[premmington]

The last time I went drinking in Lynn I ended up getting headbutted in the lattice house.

Sorry...

It is King's Lynn - dirty docks town - we are all rough here!

 

[MattF]

The last time I went drinking in Lynn I ended up getting headbutted in the lattice house.

Is that an actual place or a euphemism?