Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

Is that an actual place or a euphemism?

No it is real... Night out in "lattice house" - is like/was taking your life in your own hands! (it is shutdown now - but being refurbished for a grand opening soon)

Come to Norfolk it is nice - just avoid King's Lynn - Thetford or Great Yarmouth and you will be OK.

 

[eddie49]

Referring to the "ill effects" of rapid charging, I posted this a couple of years ago:

"This is from a dealer who specialises in used EVs, and is about a Nissan Leaf car they recently bought in.
First registered 2015, it has covered 120,000 miles.
Actual battery voltage is 378v, capacity is 56.9 Ah. Original ( new ) capacity was 66 Ah. So the state of health ( SOH ) is 87%, which represents a 1% battery degradation per 10,000 miles travelled.
The battery has 192 lithium cells, arranged as a series string of 96 units, each is 2 cells in parallel ( 2P96S ). Lowest unit 3.924v highest 3.950v average 3.938v, so the maximum cell difference is only 26mV.
The car has been rapid-charged 4,224 times, using CHAdeMO ( 500v DC up 125A )"

At 6 years old, it was close to losing only the first "bar" on the battery capacity gauge ( 85% ), so rapid charging had done it no harm. I'm guessing that it was used for private hire, sited near a Rapid charger that wasn't broken or blocked, and topped-up twice a day.

 

[not done it yet]

i would associate repeated rapid charging as a bit like bouncing an engine off its limiter repeatedly.......
yes you can do it, is it a good idea to keep doing it???
nope, not if you want it to last

Quite right. That is why the warranty is not longer than the typical current 8 year or 100k miles. Have a look at ‘Go Green Autos video on SOH (State of Health) of battery after 100,000 miles with a (relatively) small battery EV. The video is an honest assesssment of the state of health of that particular battery. The fellow particularly states how that battery has been looked after - mostly charged on a 7kW AC item. The inference (if not specifically stated) is that it has definitely not been charged a great deal on DC chargers and not to 100% on those high power chargers, for sure. As both a dealer and user, of BEVs, he knows how best to look after his assets. There are other high mileage reports out there.

The hyundai traction battery warranty states clearly 70% of original capacity. When battery SOH still indicates 100% after 100k miles, I think the manufacturer is unlikely to be having many traction battery warranty claims to deal with - at least not for those who actually set out to carefully look after their asset. There was a battery recall on ~77,000 hyundai models for a battery up-grade or replacement, to reduce the risk of fires (I believe there were 4 instances of this which prompted the recall - well 3 fires before and one after the recall, I believe. Fixed promptly and properly (not like some faults on ICE cars I could list).

Similarly, Tesla batteries are known to actually start with batteries with higher capacity than advertised - in fact most manufacturers clearly state the battery capacity and usable capacity. The warranty will clearly (except for the most cynical) be on that usable capacity, not the ultimate value.

Going back over about the last twenty years, we have suffered no ‘fatal’ diesel engine failures (one vehicle scrapped only because of a blown turbo @195k miles, making it an uneconomic repair. Those six vehicles (I still have one with 135k miles on the clock) had covered well over 1.1million miles, collectively. Somehow I doubt any engine is warranted for 150k miles - nothing like it at all! My first diesel car (going back 35 years on this one) had covered over 125k miles, without any real engine issues, before I lost track of it - as it went with the ex-wife in about ‘95.

Here are a few vids by go green autos - mainly on ioniqs. I have no affiliation with the guy and always read some of the comments to get a feel of the usefulness of the video/channel. There are very few rhubarb rhubarb comments for his videos, so seems to be a fairly honest guy.

In fact, if anyone can find a video where the ioniq is seriously criticised - either in the video or comments - please feel free to post it for a fair balance. I’ve not seen any that really give the ioniq a poor rating (apart from the pricing, of course.

Mine is not an ioniq - I could not get an electric wheelchair in that model!

 

[ukracer]

 

[GRW]

Referring to the "ill effects" of rapid charging, I posted this a couple of years ago:

"This is from a dealer who specialises in used EVs, and is about a Nissan Leaf car they recently bought in.
First registered 2015, it has covered 120,000 miles.
Actual battery voltage is 378v, capacity is 56.9 Ah. Original ( new ) capacity was 66 Ah. So the state of health ( SOH ) is 87%, which represents a 1% battery degradation per 10,000 miles travelled.
The battery has 192 lithium cells, arranged as a series string of 96 units, each is 2 cells in parallel ( 2P96S ). Lowest unit 3.924v highest 3.950v average 3.938v, so the maximum cell difference is only 26mV.
The car has been rapid-charged 4,224 times, using CHAdeMO ( 500v DC up 125A )"

At 6 years old, it was close to losing only the first "bar" on the battery capacity gauge ( 85% ), so rapid charging had done it no harm. I'm guessing that it was used for private hire, sited near a Rapid charger that wasn't broken or blocked, and topped-up twice a day.

Impressive.

 

[not done it yet]

I'm scared to ask...but what's a "dno".....and is it expensive

The situation I'm in with the electricity supply is....I have a 10mm cable on a dedicated circuit that was installed 12 years ago when we had a new consumer unit. That cable runs to an accessory box on the wall by the drive where it terminates (a nice bit of forward planning hopefully).

I'm not keen on a dedicated EV smart charger at the moment....because I can foresee problems with people simply plugging in and using it!...it's London and I know exactly what people are like here!

So instead my plan is/was to install a 32a socket within a lockable cabinet...I'll then use a 32A to type2 converter cable to charge the car.

This is just the initial setup...maybe I'll go to a smart charger in future to better control when the car charges etc (to get the cheapest tariff)....but for now I was thinking this would work fine?

The DNO will know your maximum permissible current draw. They own those cables. You may be on a ‘looped’ supply to, or from, your neighbour, which will mean providing separate feeds from the main supply cable (under the road?).

They have to consider things like night storage heaters, dishwashers, washing machines, etc all on at the same time. Fuses can often sustain an overload situation for some time without melting.

There should be an isolation device inside the property. Chargers are provided with a key, so they can be turned off.

The dedicated chargers need to communicate with the car, so a simple connection from the grid to the car won’t work. There are safety protocols which need to be confirmed before charging can commence.

Even the 2.2kW ‘granny charger’ leads contain electronics for safe connection.

If the vehicle is outside, there will need to be an extra local earthing rod, if you are on a PME connected supply, with most earlier chargers. New chargers may be be smart enough to protect the user (or anyone else who touches the vehicle) from a potentially lethal jolt.

The DNO may well cost you nothing - but they may also decline the application. Should be OK if there are other charging stations in the street - as long as their supply cables are adequate for the number of applicants.

Charger fitting companies will do all the checking, installation and certification as part of their high cost service.

There are loads of second hand chargers on ebay. As always, you just need to know what you are buying.

The newest ‘smart’ chargers seem to be the OHME smart (may be others). Expensive as supplied fitted only, I believe, but can be used on any BEV at the Octopus Intelligent tariff (7.5p/kWh at present). Some, but not all, new EVs can operate from non-smart chargers and the Octopus Intelligent tariff.

Need to know more?

 

[Farside]

The last time I went drinking in Lynn I ended up getting headbutted in the lattice house.

That sounds painful.

 

[toddy]

No it is real... Night out in "lattice house" - is like/was taking your life in your own hands! (it is shutdown now - but being refurbished for a grand opening soon)

Come to Norfolk it is nice - just avoid King's Lynn - Thetford or Great Yarmouth and you will be OK.

I found great Yarmouth ok, even in cobholm... But then if you know all the rough people it helps....

 

[jimbo84]

Got rid of my electric van last week. Gone back to a petrol car. I no longer need a van but haven't done for a year, I may have kept it but the impending 2025 tax, the rise in electricity costs and then the limiting range and needing something more family friendly make it not make sense anymore. I would have liked to have stayed electric but the required money to shell out on an electric car just made it a non starter so back to dino juice for now.

 

[atomant48]

Got rid of my electric van last week. Gone back to a petrol car. I no longer need a van but haven't done for a year, I may have kept it but the impending 2025 tax, the rise in electricity costs and then the limiting range and needing something more family friendly make it not make sense anymore. I would have liked to have stayed electric but the required money to shell out on an electric car just made it a non starter so back to dino juice for now.

What’s the detail of the 2025 tax?

 

[jimbo84]

What’s the detail of the 2025 tax?

They'll be taxed the same as all other vehicles. So vans £320 regardless of fuel and cars the £180 or whatever it is at the moment plus the over £40000 premium for those with that list price (most new electric vehicles).

Still unconfirmed whether or not it will be retrospectively applied.

It was no surprise they would tax them eventually, but I'm surprised (not really) that they'll tax them so highly.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

The DNO will know your maximum permissible current draw. They own those cables. You may be on a ‘looped’ supply to, or from, your neighbour, which will mean providing separate feeds from the main supply cable (under the road?).

All useful info...they've just installed 4 twin 22kwh roadside chargers 15m from my front door so I'm thinking there isn't really a street supply issue where I am...one of the few plus points living in London. They're actually installing groups of 4 of them on every side road where I live....do the twins supply 44kwh in total...so thats 176KWh?

This is the cable I was looking at...I wasn't just going to stick a 32A plug on the end of a type 2 socket and plug it into my new car!

Will speak to my electrician friend about the requirements regarding a 32A socket (or home charger) and just go from there...with 100A coming into the house I'm not really worried about exceeding the supply (heating is gas).

GEN-2 EV Charging Cable | Type 2 to 32 Amp Commando

Easily charge your Type 2 EV from a 32 amp Commando socket. This is suitable for all UK households. Just plug and charge! 32 amp Commando power plug Type 2 charging plug (IEC 62196) Power usage stats via LED screen Amp select feature to down rate on button press 5 metre Current: 32 amp Voltage...

evonestop.co.uk

 

[willie.macleod]

All useful info...they've just installed 4 twin 22kwh roadside chargers 15m from my front door so I'm thinking there isn't really a street supply issue where I am...one of the few plus points living in London. They're actually installing groups of 4 of them on every side road where I live....do the twins supply 44kwh in total...so thats 176KWh?

This is the cable I was looking at...I wasn't just going to stick a 32A plug on the end of a type 2 socket and plug it into my new car!

Will speak to my electrician friend about the requirements regarding a 32A socket (or home charger) and just go from there...with 100A coming into the house I'm not really worried about exceeding the supply (heating is gas).

The 22kW charging posts are unlikely to be capable of delivering the full whack, even rarer to find an EV that can utilise them at that. 11kW max is a bit more common but most EVs will have 6.6kW onboard chargers so nowhere near 176kW required.

With regards to your commando socket your electrician friend will no doubt advise you that they'll need to install an earth rod for it (TT earthing) given its intended use.

 

[premmington]

They'll be taxed the same as all other vehicles. So vans £320 regardless of fuel and cars the £180 or whatever it is at the moment plus the over £40000 premium for those with that list price (most new electric vehicles).

Still unconfirmed whether or not it will be retrospectively applied.

It was no surprise they would tax them eventually, but I'm surprised (not really) that they'll tax them so highly.

You got a link for this detail....?

new one on me... 2025 road fund raping for EV converts

 

[Morrisman]

I pulled up behind a Tesla at a small local four way roundabout last night. Four drivers were all looking at each other, waiting for someone to go, when this Tesla made the decision and shot forward to the other side of a roundabout, then stopped dead at a zebra crossing where an old lady was waiting to cross.
No noise, no tyre squeal, no smoke, no vibration, not even a Dysonesque whirr.....one second it was right in front of me, next it had launched 40 feet and then come to a dead stop. Impressive. Very impressive.

 

[willie.macleod]

The Leaf will be £20 a year road tax in 2025. The other ICE vehicles I tax are more than that a month

 

[jmp49]

24k on our Seat Mii ev now, nothing more to report from personal actual experience, just plug it in to charge of a night on the granny charger and drive it and it doesn't seem to have lost any range. We've been using it a lot more recently as our other daily, a Clio iv 1.5dci recently without warning snapped its turbine shaft in the turbo and destroyed the engine/catalyst with shrapnel on a family holiday far away, and even at 6k value its a uneconomic dealership repair so I ended up renting a breakdown truck and driving it home myself & have broken my rule of working on modern stuff and am fitting a engine from the breakers which seemingly involves removing most of the car, and my experience from that is summed up as "what a horrible little turd to work on".

 

[premmington]

24k on our Seat Mii ev now, nothing more to report from personal actual experience, just plug it in to charge of a night on the granny charger and drive it and it doesn't seem to have lost any range. We've been using it a lot more recently as our other daily, a Clio iv 1.5dci recently without warning snapped its turbine shaft in the turbo and destroyed the engine/catalyst with shrapnel on a family holiday far away, and even at 6k value its a uneconomic dealership repair so I ended up renting a breakdown truck and driving it home myself & have broken my rule of working on modern stuff and am fitting a engine from the breakers which seemingly involves removing most of the car, and my experience from that is summed up as "what a horrible little turd to work on".

Clio 4 with a 1.5 dci in it - not the worst thing on the planet to change a lump in...

 

[jmp49]

I'm doing now, its the older phase1 revision with the K9K608 so front driveshafts/joints/subframe/steering rack off just to remove the FAP/Cat from the turbo at the rear as its contaminated with oil & bolts right onto the turbo but is too big to get out of any space without stripping the other stuff off to get it clear and assessed, and then the whole front of the car off to get the engine/box out as a unit once the extent of the destruction was clear. So yes, basically remove everything forward of the dash apart from the wings defeating a myriad of plastic clips and trim and out it pops. I probably made my life more difficult by not wanting to degass the aircon, and stripped it out complete so I could stand it one side sealed.
The replacement motor is here and sat on a pallet on the forklift after some mix ups where we were sent a phase2 which has a completely different egr/turbo/cat layout and won't fit what we have, then I unboxed the sealed cambelt kit to do it while its accessible and the belt is missing out the kit. Some jobs just want to fight you the whole way. Its really not my cup of tea, normally I work on older cars where everything is made to be worked on.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

The 22kW charging posts are unlikely to be capable of delivering the full whack

Have to wait and see...I installed the app...54p per kWh seems a bit steep plus...wait for it...after 4 hrs there is a lingering charge of 8p per minute!