Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[GRW]

Given the current feeling against “carrying on as we are” then any alternative just needs to be better than what we currently have - by most measures, if you discount Facebook memes and “Dave down the pub” as serious sources, seem to suggest that over the lifetime of the vehicle an ev is “better” in terms of carbon emissions than an ice vehicle. Seeing as over 40% of our grid last year came from renewables, and pretty much 0% of an ice fuel could be classed as renewable, then I guess that stands to reason. I don’t think anyone says it’s going to be perfect, just an improvement.

So, given that “carry on as we are” is not an option that our leaders want us to have, other than an ev there is no viable alternative currently. Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be very practical, and there no infrastructure in place. What else? Green fuels? Maybe. But even that’s only just getting off the ground, and may be better suited to things that we just can’t use electric for, or that it’s not ideally suited for eg aviation and road haulage?

Personally I’m not convinced by the environment argument, I don’t have much of an opinion either way, though even if you discount the climate change part at some point we would have to look at moving away from digging up a finite resource and burning it in vehicles. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened for decades, but it wasn’t going to last forever.

Here's the thing though. Really @My Old Landy has the answer.

But.... are you @daleyd prepared to give up your car? Happy to forgo personal (motorised) transport altogether to "save the planet"?
No.
Buying an EV might make you feel better about running a car.... but the reality is its making a difference so infinitesimal that its pretty irrelevant.
But making you feel good about Consuming & having personal transport - is IMO part of the great Con.
Capitalism & our entire economy is based upon & depends upon Consumerism. Enough start to "make do & mend" or do without - & Consumer spending falls, tax revenue falls & the economy struggles - do enough & the economy crashes.
Consumerism & Conservation are wholly incompatible philosophies.

But.... its a neat trick if you can salve the willing conscience of the consumer by saying "here, you can have what you want, have the shiny new car, AND you'll be saving the planet so it's all good" (& ahem the govt will have the sales tax and a big slice of every pound you spend owning & using it).

The middle-upper income earners, along with the "Silver Pound" - well you're the group with the disposable income that everyone wants a big slice of. Now I've of course not got the demographics to prove it.... but just which groups have the money and are demonstrably the ones buying EV's huh

 

[daleyd]

Here's the thing though. Really @My Old Landy has the answer.

But.... are you @daleyd prepared to give up your car? Happy to forgo personal (motorised) transport altogether to "save the planet"?
No.
Buying an EV might make you feel better about running a car.... but the reality is its making a difference so infinitesimal that its pretty irrelevant.
But making you feel good about Consuming & having personal transport - is IMO part of the great Con.
Capitalism & our entire economy is based upon & depends upon Consumerism. Enough start to "make do & mend" or do without - & Consumer spending falls, tax revenue falls & the economy struggles - do enough & the economy crashes.
Consumerism & Conservation are wholly incompatible philosophies.

But.... its a neat trick if you can salve the willing conscience of the consumer by saying "here, you can have what you want, have the shiny new car, AND you'll be saving the planet so it's all good" (& ahem the govt will have the sales tax and a big slice of every pound you spend owning & using it).

The middle-upper income earners, along with the "Silver Pound" - well you're the group with the disposable income that everyone wants a big slice of. Now I've of course not got the demographics to prove it.... but just which groups have the money and are demonstrably the ones buying EV's huh

I’m not trying to convince anyone of an environmental argument - it’s not one that I agree with but it’s one that people use. The people that make decisions.

The choice seems to be something other than an ice car, or nothing. You may not like that choice, but that’s the one that’s offered.

Are you ok with nothing? Asking me rhetorical questions doesn’t change a thing.

Edit to add - people splurging on a tesla aren't making a decision to carry on running around in a 10 year old mondeo OR buy a tesla! If they didn't buy a tesla they would be buying a new bmw/merc/range rover.

 

[roofman]

I have my views and they lean to keeping fossils for now till we are up to speed with EV infrastructure...Why the hell do some members keep pecking at heads trying to get there views and points across, if baffles me. By all means say your bit but please don't keep on trying to convince others who have their own views, it's just childish

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Perhaps it was a Friday car

From what I've heard they're all like that...even the ones I've seen on the road from a distance haven't been great.

Mg4 was pretty good on the build front.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

The long term solution really is mass transport with little or no personal transport

Or, fewer people on the planet.

 

[ukracer]

Given the current feeling against “carrying on as we are” then any alternative just needs to be better than what we currently have - by most measures, if you discount Facebook memes and “Dave down the pub” as serious sources, seem to suggest that over the lifetime of the vehicle an ev is “better” in terms of carbon emissions than an ice vehicle. Seeing as over 40% of our grid last year came from renewables, and pretty much 0% of an ice fuel could be classed as renewable, then I guess that stands to reason. I don’t think anyone says it’s going to be perfect, just an improvement.

So, given that “carry on as we are” is not an option that our leaders want us to have, other than an ev there is no viable alternative currently. Hydrogen doesn’t seem to be very practical, and there no infrastructure in place. What else? Green fuels? Maybe. But even that’s only just getting off the ground, and may be better suited to things that we just can’t use electric for, or that it’s not ideally suited for eg aviation and road haulage?

Personally I’m not convinced by the environment argument, I don’t have much of an opinion either way, though even if you discount the climate change part at some point we would have to look at moving away from digging up a finite resource and burning it in vehicles. Maybe that wouldn’t have happened for decades, but it wasn’t going to last forever.

Hydrogen might not be practical but the image I posted is the tip of an iceberg. Plus plugging in all those EV's in overnight will not be possible with our current infastructure.

 

[ukracer]

Build quality on Teslas is pretty poor.

They catch fire well though...

 

[roofman]

Or, fewer people on the planet.

great idea but who's in charge of who stays and who goes

 

[slim_boy_fat]

great idea but who's in charge of who stays and who goes

The next major war will sort it out.

 

[roofman]

The next major war will sort it out.

Or CovidPlus the problem with the war idea is that the strong healthy breeding stock get slaughtered first, like the 1st and 2nd world wars

 

[ukracer]

Or CovidPlus the problem with the war idea is that the strong healthy breeding stock get slaughtered first, like the 1st and 2nd world wars

I saw it with my own eyes and I still.dont know what the hell I saw.
I am certainly far more Paranoid than before Covid appeared, and I had a major lack of trust of certain people before then.

 

[bricol]

Build quality on all cars built in the US is pretty poor - and has been for some time.

Can't argue - but the the price for the same large number of heavy breathing horses under the hood in a European car is considerably more, for the same age/miles. With my Dodge there's a lot of stuff your usual owner would never see, as they wouldn't in a European built car, as it's behind other panels, trim, covers etc, but its left wrinkly, un-evenly trimmed, etc whereas my experience with older European stuff is that it's a lot neater behind he scenes.

Although, as I occasionally point out to USA owners of the same "American muscle" as mine . . . it's a Mexican drivetrain installed in a Canadian built shell . . .

 

[Ubique]

The next major war will sort it out.

I've been saying for a while we're overdue a good 'rallying' war, The Falklands was the last 'proper' one, GW1 & GW2 were figments of that war criminal Blair's sucking up to the septics, Afghan was a 'security intervention' and as such held no great sway with the great unwashed - unless one of your family was sacrificed for the chance to give the locals time to think about what they wanted, turns out they didn't want change after all...

But yer, time to give someone a good tw@tting - see how much fossil fuel we can burn in the name of National Security, BEV WIMIC's just won't cut it....

Imagine this with solar panels as part of the leager....

 

[roofman]

I've been saying for a while we're overdue a good 'rallying' war, The Falklands was the last 'proper' one, GW1 & GW2 were figments of that war criminal Blair's sucking up to the septics, Afghan was a 'security intervention' and as such held no great sway with the great unwashed - unless one of your family was sacrificed for the chance to give the locals time to think about what they wanted, turns out they didn't want change after all...

But yer, time to give someone a good tw@tting - see how much fossil fuel we can burn in the name of National Security, BEV WIMIC's just won't cut it....

Imagine this with solar panels as part of the leager....

View attachment 414788

Those 5 vehicles will be replaced with 5 drones...5 hits with no casualties.

 

[Richiew]

Looks like the future of warfare is drones to me. Maybe the "Playstation generation" have something to offer the forces after all?

 

[Ubique]

Those 5 vehicles will be replaced with 5 drones...5 hits with no casualties.

Those WIMIC's can do a lot more than 5 hits - and don't have kids with joysticks commanding them - besides, where's the fun in that!

Trust me, there's nothing like laying down enfilading fire on your (politicians) enemy whilst they're attacking your mates in a fixed position... The rest of the TF were busy taking out the supply lines, something that can only be acheived 'on the ground' with adult thinking, drones are a useful tool , but not the only one needed.

 

[daleyd]

I've been saying for a while we're overdue a good 'rallying' war, The Falklands was the last 'proper' one, GW1 & GW2 were figments of that war criminal Blair's sucking up to the septics, Afghan was a 'security intervention' and as such held no great sway with the great unwashed - unless one of your family was sacrificed for the chance to give the locals time to think about what they wanted, turns out they didn't want change after all...

But yer, time to give someone a good tw@tting - see how much fossil fuel we can burn in the name of National Security, BEV WIMIC's just won't cut it....

Imagine this with solar panels as part of the leager....

View attachment 414788

Bit off with GW1 (assuming you mean op granby?) - Blair was still 6 years away from power and this one was actually probably well justified. I was out by GW2 so am not prepared to comment on that one

 

[not done it yet]

Your right. I missed that, and I agree that’s what will happen. That would happen if Ev’s were a thing, or something else. Ice cars and burning oil has become so unpalatable that this is inevitable.

Yep, that was yet another post that is totally irrelevant to BEVs. Cynicism chip - no, just has a ‘chip on his shoulder’ as they say.

Hydrogen might not be practical but the image I posted is the tip of an iceberg. Plus plugging in all those EV's in overnight will not be possible with our current infastructure.

There is often 20GW available during the night. The distribution infrastructure can cope with quite a lot more than our current generation capacity. Most will only need a few kW for a few hours. What needs sorting is shifting off-shore generation from the cost to somewhere more central.

Some is base load, some is from renewables, some would need to be fossil (for quite a while yet), some can come via HVDC interconnectors from an increasing number of sources. Stop worrying now, about something you have no idea about - ICE vehicles are going to be around for a long time - not just to 2030. Don’t you think that those that do know are carrying on as usual and just waiting for the grid to collapse. If so, think again.

I read these comments about public transport for the masses and no private transport. Those comments must come from townies - or is everyone going to need to move to large conurbations? More thought required by some?

 

[Ubique]

Fair point, GW1 ('Granby') was nowt to do with me, but it did - as an outside observer, have some overreach beyond the stated objectives, which made me think of Blair...

 

[Farside]

great idea but who's in charge of who stays and who goes

Let nature sort them out. Nobody needs to die prematurely.
What we need is a virus that renders at least two-thirds of the population sterile.