Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[premmington]

But it's ok, you can go on youtube and learn how to repair/bodge one new cell in..Job's a good un..

That made an old man smile - LOL.

You are a witty chap Simon.

 

[Agrismith]

"the reason they sell new cars mate - is old ones wear out and break"

Just sad when perfectly good vehicles are written off by an ECU. I would find it more comforting scrapping a vehicle that's rusted away or a large component has imploded rather than because sensor one and sensor 2 don't agree

 

[Ubique]

In my experience, it's usually a combination of the cost to repair the immediate issue ( I think in the last ten years i've replaced less than that number of 'critical' control modules) plus the ongoing cost of general dilapidation and missed maintenance coming back to bite them for all the years they've enjoyed 'cheap motoring'. It's rare for 'perfectly good' vehicles to be sent to the breakers for the want of a control module, DPF etc. We had one recently that was towed away to the breakers - 2011 vehicle with a failed turbo - also compression imbalance of 6bar across all pots and two missed services. The interior was pretty ropey too, probably due to the contents of the three child seats distributing various fluids & solids....

 

[premmington]

Just sad when perfectly good vehicles are written off by an ECU. I would find it more comforting scrapping a vehicle that's rusted away or a large component has imploded rather than because sensor one and sensor 2 don't agree

I get it - I agree with you.

But when you gotta fund a professional at £100's of pounds an hour for loads of hours to find the fault and you still gotta buy parts and then have them fitted/commissioned.

People bail and scrap them....

-----------

To be honest - welding a few holes up is more viable...

 

[DanZac]

Just sad when perfectly good vehicles are written off by an ECU. I would find it more comforting scrapping a vehicle that's rusted away or a large component has imploded rather than because sensor one and sensor 2 don't agree

Just think of it as electrical rust.

"What's up with your car mate"?
"Oh, you know, the old electrical tin worms got it"

Problem solved.

 

[Smallfry]

Well, I have owned numbers of Rover 200s, the one based on the Honda Concerto, in 1.4 and 2litre 16v guise. All were excellent, no rust, handled really well, refined and once the penny pinched radiator was changed very reliable. The later version was to become the 25 - they simply used the earlier floorpan and did away with the Honda rear suspension, substituting in - yes no prises for guessing - the Montego rear beam. It really compromised the handling, needed beefy anti roll bars both ends to control it and subsequently always felt “remote” somehow. I still have the MGZR 160 vvc version here now.
For years I used to hear people who never owned the later Rovers talking them down, buying French crap. Sad, but that’s what we did..
And while we’re on the subject or reconstituted old cars - the 45, or mgzs ( I had the hooligan V6) was based on the Honda Civic, designed way back in 1986, it was a damned good car, made into a boring one for most of the time Rover sold it.

You mean the earlier squarer model. They were good cars. The one I had was the later roundish one which was badged 200, then became the 25. I also had an 827 for a short while as a courtesy car, while the 200 was fixed. Again. That was a nice car too, and very quick.

I liked the "French Crap" ! Some of it. I had a 205 diesel, and a new 306 D Turbo which were excellent cars in all respects IMO. SWMBO had a 206 and a 307, which were awful. I had a Renault Laguna which was so comfortable and a lovely car to drive, and I have two Renault vans, a Master Mk2 (Best van ever) and a Trafic, and all of these have been totally reliable in my hands.

 

[premmington]

In my experience, it's usually a combination of the cost to repair the immediate issue ( I think in the last ten years i've replaced less than that number of 'critical' control modules) plus the ongoing cost of general dilapidation and missed maintenance coming back to bite them for all the years they've enjoyed 'cheap motoring'. It's rare for 'perfectly good' vehicles to be sent to the breakers for the want of a control module, DPF etc. We had one recently that was towed away to the breakers - 2011 vehicle with a failed turbo - also compression imbalance of 6bar across all pots and two missed services. The interior was pretty ropey too, probably due to the contents of the three child seats distributing various fluids & solids....

I agree with this - some people don't wanna spend on servicing and repairs - the minute there car fails they bail - won't even pay for an investigation...

Others thou "soldier on" - and you have to advise them to bail and not waste any more money.

 

[Ubique]

Just think of it as electrical rust.

"What's up with your car mate"?
"Oh, you know, the old electrical tin worms got it"

Problem solved.

One of my oft-used work phrases is 'well, nothing lasts forever' - usually taken in good humour, not so the bloke with a four month old Volvo that had been in several times with different issues....

 

[Ubique]

I agree with this - some people don't wanna spend on servicing and repairs - the minute there car fails they bail - won't even pay for an investigation...

Others thou "soldier on" - and you have to advise them to bail and not waste any more money.

Exactly that, the guy with the failed turbo was grudgingly prepared to have it replaced, along with an oil & filter change. He only had second thoughts when we said he's have to accept a note on the invoice stating that we believed there was significant wear to the internals of the engine due to the compression test results.

 

[Agrismith]

I get it - I agree with you.

But when you gotta fund a professional at £100's of pounds an hour for loads of hours to find the fault and you still gotta buy parts and then have them fitted/commissioned.

People bail and scrap them....

-----------

To be honest - welding a few holes up is more viable...

I fully get the price it's just a hard pill to swallow. Especially things like vehicles constantly going into limp mode, the onboard computer is smart enough to sense a problem but the manufacturers haven't given it the ability to clearly tell you what the problem is.the whole idea of diagnostic soft ware is that you shouldn't need to spend so much for a human to diagnose the problem. But in reality that wouldn't benefit the manufacturer so instead we shall scrap cars that aren't worn out

 

[rhubarb7]

Exactly that, the guy with the failed turbo was grudgingly prepared to have it replaced, along with an oil & filter change. He only had second thoughts when we said he's have to accept a note on the invoice stating that we believed there was significant wear to the internals of the engine due to the compression test results.

It'll be worse with EV owners. I've spoken to some that think there's no engine so it won't go wrong.

I was visiting family last weekend, next door neighbour with a 2 1/2 year old Tesla X long. 90 grand new price..Making awful noises going back and forth..His wife was staring at it trying to figure it out. I bet it's not had an ounce of maintenance in it's life.

 

[rhubarb7]

I fully get the price it's just a hard pill to swallow. Especially things like vehicles constantly going into limp mode, the onboard computer is smart enough to sense a problem but the manufacturers haven't given it the ability to clearly tell you what the problem is.the whole idea of diagnostic soft ware is that you shouldn't need to spend so much for a human to diagnose the problem. But in reality that wouldn't benefit the manufacturer so instead we shall scrap cars that aren't worn out

A lot of people don't look after what they've got, or are so saddled with finance payments they can't afford too, so just drive and drive them. And scream like hell when it fails and is going to cost them money.

 

[premmington]

I fully get the price it's just a hard pill to swallow. Especially things like vehicles constantly going into limp mode, the onboard computer is smart enough to sense a problem but the manufacturers haven't given it the ability to clearly tell you what the problem is.the whole idea of diagnostic soft ware is that you shouldn't need to spend so much for a human to diagnose the problem. But in reality that wouldn't benefit the manufacturer so instead we shall scrap cars that aren't worn out

Had one today - 2007 Lexus 2.2D with 175.000m on clock - car looked OK no panel damage or rust.

Car has dash lighting up like Xmas tree - Another garage sold him new battery/alternator/tyre - and one hours diagnostic time - then declared it impossible and refered it to us.

CAN gateway dropping in back of dashboard when hot. I had a couple of hours on it - but customer refused dash out and full wiring check...

Bailed after paying for new alternator/battery/tyre and labour at two garages.

I don't know if car needed alternator battery and tyre when they were changed - I can only tell you they were all new when I inspected the car.

 

[premmington]

It'll be worse with EV owners. I've spoken to some that think there's no engine so it won't go wrong.

I was visiting family last weekend, next door neighbour with a 2 1/2 year old Tesla X long. 90 grand new price..Making awful noises going back and forth..His wife was staring at it trying to figure it out. I bet it's not had an ounce of maintenance in it's life.

Should of bought a Rover 75 (BMW build quality you know!)




Wetting myself!

 

[Ubique]

I fully get the price it's just a hard pill to swallow. Especially things like vehicles constantly going into limp mode, the onboard computer is smart enough to sense a problem but the manufacturers haven't given it the ability to clearly tell you what the problem is.the whole idea of diagnostic soft ware is that you shouldn't need to spend so much for a human to diagnose the problem. But in reality that wouldn't benefit the manufacturer so instead we shall scrap cars that aren't worn out

There are a couple of issues, firstly, the systems - both operational and diagnostic, are written by humans - often different teams, then there are the actuators and sensors - sometimes in one assembly as a closed-loop device (EGR valve for example) The sensors feed the control module, which then trigger the actuators. Each circuit is monitored so open or short circuits should be easily identifiable, the problem comes when sensor inputs are wrong, but within the plausible range. This requires a suitably skilled human to look at the live data in the specific failure mode then make a judgement as to the likely cause, rectify the cause, retest in the specific failure mode then reassess the results - sometimes further testing will be required but most diag. tech's will get to the root cause in one sitting.

I'm sure you can see from the above, where the potential problems lie, one of the best brands for 'joined up thinking' I've worked for was Volvo, they were somewhat hamstrung after Ford broke up PAG but left them with some 'residue' to clean up, the later systems benefitted greatly from one production & diagnostic team (or at least sharing of homework).

 

[Agrismith]

A lot of people don't look after what they've got, or are so saddled with finance payments they can't afford too, so just drive and drive them. And scream like hell when it fails and is going to cost them money.

Plenty of vehicles that have full main dealer service history and are shot down by electrical gremlins. As @premmington stated it doesn't take long for diagnostic work to outstrip the value of cars. Especially when you get to 10+ years old.
Which is a shame considering we are supposed to be driving down waste

 

[premmington]

Joking aside the Honda/Rover period did produce some very good cars. 200/400/800 25/45

 

[rhubarb7]

Should of bought a Rover 75 (BMW build quality you know!) -




Wetting myself!

I remember there being a note on the mot manual to pass them with weak/poor handbrakes..45's and 75's Could push them by hand..Well engineered indeed lol.

BMW kept Rover in business for a few more years, they would have gone bust long before otherwise.

K series headgaskets and failed cambelts kept me in work. Oh and trailing arm bushes.

 

[rhubarb7]

Plenty of vehicles that have full main dealer service history and are shot down by electrical gremlins. As @premmington stated it doesn't take long for diagnostic work to outstrip the value of cars. Especially when you get to 10+ years old.
Which is a shame considering we are supposed to be driving down waste

But to be fair 10 years is the design life of most vehicles.. Otherwise they'd never sell any new ones...

 

[willie.macleod]

Someone (you maybe?) Said that the older Leafs can actually be worked on?
As in Nissan haven't coded the hell out of everything and made it impossible etc (something I'd be amazed about if any recent car permits)?
I imagine they are still complicated and you might need a PHD in electronics to have a clue whsts to do though?
10-years is old for an EV - can you /is it affordable - service/maintain/repair & keep it on the road for say another decade?

Yes, although mine to be fair so far hasn't needed more than a handbrake cable, tyres and brake pads/disks. Car mechanics mag had a good article on common faults, it isn't normal to go board level diagnostics on these you just swap the unit that has failed out - charger/inverter/heater etc. There's charts out there for compatibility of units, Nissan had quite a few revisions but seemed to try and keep compatibility up. Standard OBD diagnostics talk to it, there is a very good phone app called LeafSpy which links with your normal £10 bluetooth ELM 323 dongles and allows all manner of diagnostics to be carried out including coding of some units.

Nissan workshop manuals are out there easy enough to find FOC, CANBUS codes out there, all the bits are desirable for conversions. The EV bits in mine are destined to go into a Solihull product at the end of its life as a Leaf. I am a triggers broom type of person and I would hope to be able to keep things for a reasonable length of time, I have the IMI EV ticket which is easy for any mechanic to get and its well worth it as it will allow access to the likes of HEVRA where you buy into their knowledge/backup/specialist tool hire etc. if you need it.