All Positions Electrode Recommendation for AC Welder.

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Yes, try a higher voltage if you can.

It helped a bit, but not as much as I might have liked, I think a skill upgrade will be required to make good use of them.

 

[Barking Mat]

It helped a bit, but not as much as I might have liked, I think a skill upgrade will be required to make good use of them.

Well, thank you for being the only one to post some photos.

I've spent my entire welding life on 6013's and never succeeded with vertical ups, must try to buy some 7018's but rare as rocking horse poo in French welding shops, aka, non existent.

Really must order some and try.

.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well, thank you for being the only one to post some photos.

I've spent my entire welding life on 6013's and never succeeded with vertical ups, must try to buy some 7018's but rare as rocking horse poo in French welding shops, aka, non existent.

Really must order some and try.

It's worth experimenting, I definitely feel like I've gained something from this evening even if it means one of my purchases didn't pan out being useful for the task at hand.

 

[Munkul]

Just as a quick note to be careful of 7018 and AC welders.
The Bohler AWS 7018 that we use all the time on DC welders, and also Fox EV50 does not run very well on AC welders. It would barely stay lit on both of our BOC oilcooled transformers. The packet says AC, DCEN and DCEP, but the datasheets say DCEP.
A lot of 7018s are DCEP only, not AC.
These same rods make a strange sucking sound when ran on DCEN so at least you know if your polarity is wrong

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Just as a quick note to be careful of 7018 and AC welders.
The Bohler AWS 7018 that we use all the time on DC welders, and also Fox EV50 does not run very well on AC welders. It would barely stay lit on both of our BOC oilcooled transformers. The packet says AC, DCEN and DCEP, but the datasheets say DCEP.
A lot of 7018s are DCEP only, not AC.
These same rods make a strange sucking sound when ran on DCEN so at least you know if your polarity is wrong

Yeah I've had similar experiences, wouldnt run at all on my transformer machine, they run beautiful on all 3 inverters I have though! hence me suggesting 7016 as I believe they're meant for ac and have similar characteristics to a 7018.

 

[chrismac]

Just as a quick note to be careful of 7018 and AC welders.
The Bohler AWS 7018 that we use all the time on DC welders, and also Fox EV50 does not run very well on AC welders. It would barely stay lit on both of our BOC oilcooled transformers. The packet says AC, DCEN and DCEP, but the datasheets say DCEP.
A lot of 7018s are DCEP only, not AC.
These same rods make a strange sucking sound when ran on DCEN so at least you know if your polarity is wrong

I am glad someone has brought this up, years ago I was using 7018's on an old Oxford machine and although it did the job, the arc would just break and the metal of the rod would burn right up many mm into the flux, had to break the flux off the rod and start again,

I would seriously consider if you can buying an inverter at the price of them now a days, even a cheap one would be a great investment and allow you to weld positional with ease.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I would seriously consider if you can buying an inverter at the price of them now a days, even a cheap one would be a great investment and allow you to weld positional with ease.

So I was going to say that I don't Arc Weld often enough to justify the cost or space...

But out of curiosity had a quick look on eBay (always lethal) and managed to grab a little Migatronic LTH 135 portable which will sit out of the way on top of the plasma cutter, £80 posted.

So, I guess we will see how that pans out.

 

[Dickthedark]

I would doubt that an oil cooled oxford would run a 6011 rod & they're not easy to find in the UK either.

My recommendation would be a 7018 from any of the quality suppliers like oerlikon or bohler fox. Honestly, once you've got used to starting them you'll never use a 6013 again!

I used to use an old oil cooled to weld pipe, they burn a 6011 well (used esab nu5 for the root) they are available at a lot of welding supply shops.
I would use a 6013. Burned thousands of them out of position. The Boss ones from BSS are cheap and good quality + they are easy to store/ no vac packs or rebaking generally Passed x-ray with them. Just my take

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

So the little Migatronic Inverter welder turned up the other day, and I picked up some Dinse Plugs for the leads from the Oxford* today...

Only had time for a quick play after messing about fitting the plugs but the arc striking and stability are notably better than with the Oxford, especially with the 6011 rods.

With 6013's it feels a bit more binary/less forgiving compared to welding with AC in terms of the effect of arc distance but I can get used to that easy enough.

Well worth the investment, but not 100% sure it will fully replace the Oxford, yet.


*I had 20m leads for it, so just cut them off a foot from the welder and installed male plugs on the leads, and trailing sockets on the sections with the lugs which screw to the Oxford terminals, so I can use that set of leads with either machine now.

Getting the rubberised covers onto the trailing sockets was an absolute nightmare of a job.

 

[zeppelin builder]

your oilcooled will have 50 and 80 v output terminals , get some filarc 56s in a vac pack set to 80v and crank the amps up you will keep the 6013 for stirring paint if you want big holes in thin metal and scars for life use 6010 / 6011 not a rod for a learner in overhead position unless of course your a yank

 

[zeppelin builder]

Just as a quick note to be careful of 7018 and AC welders.
The Bohler AWS 7018 that we use all the time on DC welders, and also Fox EV50 does not run very well on AC welders. It would barely stay lit on both of our BOC oilcooled transformers. The packet says AC, DCEN and DCEP, but the datasheets say DCEP.
A lot of 7018s are DCEP only, not AC.
These same rods make a strange sucking sound when ran on DCEN so at least you know if your polarity is wrong

many moons ago when welders were recognised as highly skilled and paid accordingly the kestrel marine yard in dundee was mostly welded with Ac pots with 80 >100 v ocv the welders test for the start was a 6g heavy wall pipe 56s with ac , with the onset of tig roots dc was used more in the pipeshop and was a revelation for stick roots and so much easier , 88s became the go to rod for structural and low temp pipe i remember the methil yard had procedures to run88s on negative this tamed them and made them realy easy to use on the bottom of the pipe. if youve used 4mm 88s on shd 80 pipe youl no doubt have blown a few roots and hot passes , these rods have mental dig about them on + and need a skilled operator with a remote to humour them on the 7 to 9 o clock danger zone
the 88s gave very clean xrays as they were so vicious they killed 99pc of all known germs if used with the (domestos juice) high amps

 

[Erie Fred]

your oilcooled will have 50 and 80 v output terminals , get some filarc 56s in a vac pack set to 80v and crank the amps up you will keep the 6013 for stirring paint if you want big holes in thin metal and scars for life use 6010 / 6011 not a rod for a learner in overhead position unless of course your a yank

ahh yes, the combination smell of 6011 and hair burning brings back memories....

 

[zeppelin builder]

I used to use an old oil cooled to weld pipe, they burn a 6011 well (used esab nu5 for the root) they are available at a lot of welding supply shops.
I would use a 6013. Burned thousands of them out of position. The Boss ones from BSS are cheap and good quality + they are easy to store/ no vac packs or rebaking generally Passed x-ray with them. Just my take

a lot of hvac work in boiler houses was done with nu5 root and vodex
also they were doing oxy acetylene on smaller stuff into the 80s
the engineer i worked for at the time was very impressed with tig welding and sold it to clients as a safer process "spark free welding he called it". in hospitals plant rooms etc , and had the advantage of less debris in the pipe , spatter ,slag etc , to interfere with valves etc
we ran procedures to asme ix tig and lo hy and that opened up more
work for them ,
however "surprisingly "a good experienced man with 6010 can still bury most welders in rod ends but you will have to pay him piece work to ever witness it

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

your oilcooled will have 50 and 80 v output terminals , get some filarc 56s in a vac pack set to 80v and crank the amps up you will keep the 6013 for stirring paint if you want big holes in thin metal and scars for life use 6010 / 6011 not a rod for a learner in overhead position unless of course your a yank

I have already learned that lesson with the 6011, it digs like an angry mole!

I can see uses for them, but it wouldn't be my go-to going forward, it certainly reminded me that my Arc skills aren't up to the same standards as my Gas and MIG are.

What makes you say stick with the Oxford over the inverter welder, other than duty cycle I am struggling to see the advantage.

 

[Erie Fred]

however "surprisingly "a good experienced man with 6010 can still bury most welders in rod ends but you will have to pay him piece work to ever witness it

I have a friend that does pipeline work, did allot of work down in Carrollton county ohio with the latest Marcellus shale boom. a few years back.
He told me:
1. pipe from well to pipeline is 6", normal used to be 2"
2. Sch 160 double extra heavy pipe.
3. Cushion elbows because of the sand erosion.
4. 8010 root and all cover passes.
5. 100% X-rayed.
6. Pressures at well running 5k-7k psi.

 

[Bsmith]

My recommendation would be a 7018 from any of the quality suppliers like oerlikon or bohler fox. Honestly, once you've got used to starting them you'll never use a 6013 again!

But for general purpose a 7016 would be my preference as 7018 is a filler rod, it produces more weld metal for welds such as a second pass in a Vee'd join.

 

[addjunkie]

I have a friend that does pipeline work, did allot of work down in Carrollton county ohio with the latest Marcellus shale boom. a few years back.
He told me:
1. pipe from well to pipeline is 6", normal used to be 2"
2. Sch 160 double extra heavy pipe.
3. Cushion elbows because of the sand erosion.
4. 8010 root and all cover passes.
5. 100% X-rayed.
6. Pressures at well running 5k-7k psi.

Cushion elbows with those kind of pressures at the well head would be the least of your worries. If a sand screen starts to fail down hole youll cut a choke in a few days!

 

[Erie Fred]

Cushion elbows with those kind of pressures at the well head would be the least of your worries. If a sand screen starts to fail down hole youll cut a choke in a few days!

I just wrote what he told me.
He did not mention any downhole screens.

 

[chrismac]

many moons ago when welders were recognised as highly skilled and paid accordingly the kestrel marine yard in dundee was mostly welded with Ac pots with 80 >100 v ocv the welders test for the start was a 6g heavy wall pipe 56s with ac , with the onset of tig roots dc was used more in the pipeshop and was a revelation for stick roots and so much easier , 88s became the go to rod for structural and low temp pipe i remember the methil yard had procedures to run88s on negative this tamed them and made them realy easy to use on the bottom of the pipe. if youve used 4mm 88s on shd 80 pipe youl no doubt have blown a few roots and hot passes , these rods have mental dig about them on + and need a skilled operator with a remote to humour them on the 7 to 9 o clock danger zone
the 88s gave very clean xrays as they were so vicious they killed 99pc of all known germs if used with the (domestos juice) high amps

Kestrel Marine also had a yard at Wester in Caithness, from memory they had a hanger at the airport in Wick too for some work, they installed huge lighting towers at the harbour which were just removed a few years ago.

 

[addjunkie]

I just wrote what he told me.
He did not mention any downhole screens.

When a well is drilled, the oil bearing zone cuttings and rock structure are analysed. Once the well is complete different casing types at the oil inlet end are used. Some are a gravel pack, so simplistically gravel packed around the tubing to allow oil and gas to flow, but hold back rock. Others if its likely to produce lots of sand would have sand screen, where the oil bearing end of the tubing is wrapped in fine very strong hard wearing wire, creating a filter to hold sand back but allow oil and gas to flow.
If when starting a well up, especially a newly completed one, you need to bring them on slowly or the screen can collapsed. If you've 5000 psi or more at the well head, the sand particles rattling through the choke will be moving really quickly, cutting the choke to bits. The choke is the valve that is used to regulate the fluid flow. All the other valves in the xmas tree on the well head are open or close. Once the choke is cut, control is lost, so the well would be shut in until its replaced.

Down hole tubing design is quite specialised not something the piping guys would get involved with. Drilling folk do down hole and stop once the xmas tree is installed. Piping guys work from the choke. The pipe spec regardless of whats in the line is always at the maximum potential pressure. Theres usually coupons to monitor for corrosion and erosion rates, also ndt on the bends or other high wear areas.