All so called Natural Generation methods have consequences …

[pedrobedro]

Think I’m on a lone crusade.

It's not worrying anybody else if that's what you mean. I'll agree on one thing I don't think they should be covering good fields with solar panels when there could be crops or grazing going on but sticking them on a roof is fine. Now wind farms, what is happening to all the wind dissipated by the big rotors when it could be powering sail boats and kite buggies ? We are not trapping or storing the heat we are converting it, well some people are, not me personally.

 

[hotponyshoes]

What's the crusade?

I would fully support anybody who said the science shows global warming is real, is bad news, and should be stopped if possible.

At the same time I'm not going to get rid of my fridge and walk down to the nearest farm every day to get a pint of milk in exchange for half an hours farm labour then return to my house and heat it on a wood fire.

You do seem to be doing more than me by having a 10kw array and using it to charge your car up.
But I'm going to carry on driving my diesel van around to work until I can afford to buy a house big enough to put a 10kw array onto

 

[Dave-sparks]

Small scale solar on the roofs of houses etc is creating its own problems. It's causing small, local, increases in supply voltage. This then leads to a decrease in the output (or possibly even shutdown) of your solar system because the grid voltage is too high for it to work properly.

Also this rise in voltage shortens the lifespan of appliances and consumables such as light bulbs.

But the solar companies will solve this for you by selling you a voltage optimiser, which is usually just an autotransformer in a box with a fixed 10% voltage reduction.
They say this will improve energy efficiency by reducing the power consumption of appliances, but it rarely does.
The reduced voltage will not change the energy consumption of constant power devices, so any electronic device with a switched mode power supply.
And for any fixed resistive loads, such as anything electrically heated, it will just mean it takes longer to reach the required temperature and so use the same or more energy.

 

[Edward Teach]

What's the crusade?

I would fully support anybody who said the science shows global warming is real, is bad news, and should be stopped if possible.

At the same time I'm not going to get rid of my fridge and walk down to the nearest farm every day to get a pint of milk in exchange for half an hours farm labour then return to my house and heat it on a wood fire.

You do seem to be doing more than me by having a 10kw array and using it to charge your car up.
But I'm going to carry on driving my diesel van around to work until I can afford to buy a house big enough to put a 10kw array onto

I'm right behind you with driving my diesels,
And who knows,
All this "do good" stuff may well prove to be wrong after 20-30 years, like so many other things have !!!

 

[mtt.tr]

But we are not trapping heat, heat is reflected off


What we are is capturing light

 

[pcwizme]

The way that we could stop global warming is by stopping 7% (ish, this was what it was discussed about when I was at uni in 2004 -2008) of the light (or electromagnetic radiation) hitting the earth, this could be done by solar shading like a small number of satalites blocking the sun. Or as was suggested on one lecture the application of milk powder to the atmosphere (this is not exactly going to work but it was suggested) Alternatives were doing things like painting all roads white and all rooves white its a thing called the Albedo effect

 

[Seadog]

Without batteries it’s just converted from one form to another as soon as its earth.

Doesn't a battery convert it then?

 

[Dave-sparks]

Doesn't a battery convert it then?

Technically yes, a battery represents the conversion of electrical energy into chemical energy, then the re-conversion back to electrical energy.

However in the context of this conversation the battery represents storage of the electrical energy.

 

[LewisT]

The way that we could stop global warming is by stopping 7% (ish, this was what it was discussed about when I was at uni in 2004 -2008) of the light (or electromagnetic radiation) hitting the earth, this could be done by solar shading like a small number of satalites blocking the sun. Or as was suggested on one lecture the application of milk powder to the atmosphere (this is not exactly going to work but it was suggested) Alternatives were doing things like painting all roads white and all rooves white its a thing called the Albedo effect

Geoengineering is the broad term, fairly against this unless there no other option for the fact it just sets a precedent we can just continue along as normal. Whether you like it or not dino juice is finite better to move away from it sooner than later

 

[minimutly]

Think I’m on a lone crusade.

It's because you're talking nonsense @Miranda

 

[500e]

As @Miranda said too many people & not enough thought goes into the whole life cycle of a product.
Don't fancy the ww3 idea somewhat drastic
Why are houses not built with solar roofs as part of planing both PV. & water.
The amount of forest fires around the world at present are producing huge amounts of CO2
Search world wild fires 2021

 

[R Kraft]

The population of the industrialized countries is in a death spiral already.
I don't think a war is necessary.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53409521

 

[northwest]

I don't think a war is necessary.

Perhaps not, but it is inevitable.

 

[Bryan Williams]

And then that energy is released on Earth. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. First law of thermodynamics. We trap it, it’s here…. Yes we use it, but it doesn’t disappear.

Mine has.

 

[mike os]

PV is about the only source that should not contribute any significant net gain at the point of use.... the energy is simply converted and then used... each process will have less energy than the proceeding step .... i think.

the solar rad is incoming anyway, there is some localised heating (which will be higher than it would if it hit say a field, but possibly similar to a bare mountain? and the energy obtained from the conversion and use cannot equal the input energy

That isnt to say they are environmentally friendly as the production and end of life of the units is pretty nasty

 

[Gareth J]

Think I’m on a lone crusade.

No, you're not wrong per say. As has been mentioned as most panels are very dark, they'll absorb more radiation than a whiter surface. They, in big expanses, will also "insulate" the earth from radiating some of its energy away to the night sky and reduce ground wind speeds. Resulting in local heat island effects.

Researchers discover solar heat island effect caused by large-scale solar power plants

Large-scale solar power plants raise local temperatures, creating a solar heat island effect that, though much smaller, is similar to that created by urban or industrial areas, according to a new study.

phys.org

However, as they are potentially displacing fossil fuels, despite the local heating they do they'll still result in a net reduction in heating. If they didn't exist, more fossil fuels would be dug up and their stored energy released to the atmosphere. On top of that, more CO2 added too.

Maybe we'll get smarter at utilising these effects. Imagine a solar array built on top of an inter seasonal heat store. At times of overproduction, the panels run heat pumps which cool the panels down (and make them more efficient in the process) and push heat underground into a heat bank - to be used come wintertime to heat our homes. None of that is a novel idea but it's hard to make such a project pay while fossil fuels remain cheap.

 

[Morrisman]

And then that energy is released on Earth. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. First law of thermodynamics. We trap it, it’s here…. Yes we use it, but it doesn’t disappear.

And we can’t get rid of it back into space, so it makes sense that the planet is warming up, because of all the energy it is absorbing.

 

[fizzy]

The way that we could stop global warming is by stopping 7% (ish, this was what it was discussed about when I was at uni in 2004 -2008) of the light (or electromagnetic radiation) hitting the earth, this could be done by solar shading like a small number of satalites blocking the sun. Or as was suggested on one lecture the application of milk powder to the atmosphere (this is not exactly going to work but it was suggested) Alternatives were doing things like painting all roads white and all rooves white its a thing called the Albedo effect

I have always wondered why a roof is so dark. It would make a big difference making them reflective - perhaps changing to dark for the winter.
Cities would be a lot cooler and it would save on vast amounts of energy.
Particulates in the atmosphere can reflect a lot of heat - hence the term nuclear winter. Also volcanic eruptions can have the same effect.

 

[RonA]

Just been reading, the sun delivers more energy to earth in one hour, than that delivered by all the fossil fuels we consume in a year.
Perhaps our scientists/engineers should be looking into ways of collecting energy in equitorial regions & transferring it to more temporal/colder regions. Probably more doable than creating fusion reactor generation.
RonA

 

[awemawson]

All this solar panel nonsense isn't necessary, use jam jars !

Rupert The Bear solved the problem back in the late 50's early 60's by saving sunlight in jam jars. I distinctly remember him (in the Eagle comic I think) having a row of glowing jam jars at the end of his bed full of sunshine.

We just need to find out how he did it . . . . .