Anyone know anything about this old Compressor and is my air tank safe?

[Eyebrows]

Afternoon everyone, thought I'd post on here and see if I can get your advice on a couple of things.

I picked up this compressor a couple of days ago as a little project and also an excuse to finally have air in garage! I'm quite proud of my acquisition, other family members were less impressed but it's in the garage and I dare them to try moving it again!

It's a Lacy Hulbert compressor with a 4hp Brooks motor, the motor is dated at 1936 so I guess the compressor is probably about similar age but I can't find any information on it. Does anyone know anything about these compressors, it does seem a lovely old thing, weighs the earth, the motor runs at 950rpm so the compressor probably turns over at about 300-400rpm judging by the pulley sizes, so a beautiful old school slow turning machine. I've included a picture, anyone got any ideas etc?

Now, onto getting the thing working, going to need a belt obviously, does anyone know what sort of V specs those pulleys are likely to have? I think it's going to need to be about 2500mm long. Most importantly I'm going to need a pressure switch, obviously I'd like a Condor MDR3, but don't really fancy ponying up £60 for a pressure switch, are the cheap ones any good or can anyone recommend me one?

Finally, onto the air receiver, I had a very brief poke in with a phone torch through the outlet hole, looks a little rusty inside but really quite difficult to tell. I was going to knock the inspection ports out until I saw the price of new O-rings for them! It's extremely heavy, very thick steel so I'd be surprised if it's rusted through. So, what do you suggest I do, pressure test it (costs~£400 which is far too much or can I do it myself?)? Try restoring it entirely, anyone got recommendations on how to do so? Or just sell it/scrap steel it and buy a new one? It's also giant, are there any regulations regarding having a pressure vessel this size in your garage?

Sorry for all the questions, hope someone can help, here are a few picys of it:

 

[rtbcomp]

First things first - have you got 3 phase in your garage?

As for the belts Google something like "Belt size calculator" (or look in the links section) There are a few out there that give you the belt diameter if you type in the pulley diameters and the distance between centres. They should give you a chart showing the cross-section of the belt and its letter - I'm guessing B section for that. Try and get a matched set if you're using multiple belts.

A £15 Machine Mart switch should do the job, make sure it has 3 sets of contacts. You may have to adapt the unloading valve plumbing.

As for testing, basically they fill them with water and pump them up to 2 x working pressure, if they split water just gushes out - if you use air you may get an explosion. You may be able to hire a pump or make one from a car master cylinder.

That's probably got an oil pump in it (as well as the lubricators on the side of the cylinders) so make sure the pump turns the correct way. You may need to prime the pump if it's been stood a long time or drained.

Alternatively it's probably not worth doing, so if you'd like to bring it to Sheffield I'll take it off your hands FOC.

 

[Eyebrows]

Cheers for the reply, much appreciated.

Yes, got 32 amp 3 phase supply, haven't yet tested the motor though, anything I should check before wiring it up?

I'll give a proper google on the belts, if I'm honest, haven't looked into them yet, apologies, should have looked into it before asking, I'm sure I'll figure one!

Ok, I'll look into the machine mart switches

With regard to testing the tank, good idea about the master cylinder, going to require a lot of pipe modding but probably more than doable, might take forever though and would need some sort of check valve.

The lubricators on the cylinder sides have wicks in, so I guess top them up, there are also wicks near the big ends but hard to say, no idea where an oil pump might be, if it does how would i prime it? Any recommendations on what type of oil to use?

Haha, it was a right procedure getting the thing in and out of my car with only 2 planks of wood, definitely not doing that again, so sorry, she's mine for now!

 

[rtbcomp]

Have a look at where the main bearing is opposite the pulley - it might say something about priming, or there might be a screwed blanking plug to prime it with, like on my Westinghouse compressor. On the other hand with all the external oilers it might have a dry sump.

Any standard 30W or 40W compressor oil should do, you don't need anything fancy. Stay away from detergent oils as they hold dirt in suspension rather than letting it sink to the bottom of the sump.

It might be an idea to have the motor PAT tested, or at the very least do a continuity check between the red wires and then to the motor casing.

 

[Eyebrows]

It says oil level and a high and low mark, currently sitting on the low, shall I top it up or is it worth draining it? Thanks for the advice on oils, will look into that.

Had a look on Machine Mart, couldn't find any cheap 3 phase switches, only single phase ones. There were some what looked like Condors for £50 which isn't too badly priced tbh, might just do that, are they really worth the extra cost?

I'll do a load of tests on the motor, chances are I'll get my electrician when he's next round to take a look at it though, might even get him to wire it up seeing as he'll be able to provide the cable and is doing some other jobs already.

 

[rtbcomp]

I'd change the oil then at least you're starting from a known point.

I'm surprised the MM switches are single phase - I've only ever seen 3 phase ones, or at least ones with 3 pairs of contacts - 1 per phase for 3ph or one each live & neutral 1ph. Just had a look on Ebay - you're right! mostly 1 phase, this is 3 phase, don't know how good they are though http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Three-Pha...essure-Switch-1-4-4-Port-180PSI-/142038822296

Another option would be to use a single phase one in conjunction with a contactor, your electrician will be able to advise on that. The smaller switches tend to be rated at 3 hp anyway.

 

[armalites]

Condors tend to be the ones used on better quality machines. If it runs that will be proper old chugger that will see you out. I would be inclined to change the oil run it for a while and drain it again, may be worth having a look at the air filter. If you go on Mann Hummel website you may be able to cross ref the size to a current filter.

https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/mann-filter/online-catalogue/

 

[winchman]

Now I might be wrong but isn't that a Fridge compressor? A quick google tells me no its just old.
The tank you need to pressure test it as mentioned above
You need to weigh up is it worth the effort or just buy a new one?

 

[octo0072000]

Now I might be wrong but isn't that a Fridge compressor? A quick google tells me no its just old.
The tank you need to pressure test it as mentioned above
You need to weigh up is it worth the effort or just buy a new one?

i thought that too looks like a fridge compressor to me
also that tank looks newer than the compressor is there a data plate on the tank

 

[Eyebrows]

No, tis not a fridge compressor! It lived it's life as a workshop air compressor then has been sat for the past 30 years or so I think, not exactly sure.

I googled commercial and vintage fridge compressors, can't say I think it looks like one but maybe I'm looking at the wrong ones!

Tank has 1962 stamped on it, I just don't know whether to buy a new one or a good used one, which seems a bit of a shame seeing as it's probably quite functional. I think I'll knock out the inspection holes and see what it looks like inside at the bottom, it's the only way I'll have a proper clue. Getting an inspection done for me is far too expensive, I may as well have bought a new tank.

With regards to switches, I'd reckon a single phase + contactor will be just as expensive as a condor. It's whether I chance a cheap one or just pony up the dollar (I'm a student so pretty strapped for funds!).

Will drain and replace the oil when the time comes, i doubt it'll take much. I had a look at the filter, apparently it's 'self cleaning' and the inside of it looked spotless, I'll see if I can find one later but other things to sort first before that I think!

I know it's a bit of a project but where's the fun in buying something that works and hopefully, if I get it all running, I'd hope it'll last some time.

 

[waddycall]

Looks to me like 1936 is the date of the standard the motor complies with not the date of the motor itself so it could be a fair bit newer.

 

[armalites]

When you look at the weld bead around the top of the cylinder it's clearly not some skimpy mickey mouse thing.

 

[dobbslc]

You could test the motor before buying a pressure switch by just plugging it into a 3 phase supply. You could also test the pump for output by spinning it up with a drill and socket on the shaft. At least you'll know if it's worth spending any cash.
I love that old pulley by the way!

 

[Eyebrows]

I could do that, might try that when i get time. Would rather it was the electrician who wired it up if I'm honest as i get a bit scared around 400+V! Also, if i buy a pressure switch and the motor doesn't work, chances are i can sell it and it won't be much loss at all. Also, the three phase supply is further away than where the cable currently reaches and do not fancy moving the thing closer at the moment!

Could well be a date of conformity on the motor, either way i doubt the whole lot is any newer than the 40s. I've spun the pump over by hand as fast as two of us could and no dodgy noises came out but air did. So i guess its a fingers crossed there.

The tank is not lightly built, it's as heavy as hell, two of us struggle to lift it. I'll try bang one of the inspection plates out to take a look inside then might have to rig up a hydro test. Can't particularly say i know how I'm going to be able to pump 300psi of water in there though.

Alternatively, how hard is it to get hold of an old propane bottle or two and use them, or is that going to bring up welding problems etc?

 

[brightspark]

just give the tank a few bats underneath the bottom with a ball pein hammer if it dents easily its worn which is hardly likely on an old tank the thickness of tjhe

 

[Eyebrows]

 

[octo0072000]

seen a lot worse
as said by brightspark tap the bottom with a hammer listen to the sounds worn soft bits will be a dull sound those ends will be 10/15 mm plate or 3/8 or 1/2 inch plate on that age

 

[Eyebrows]

Right sounds good, I'll go tappy tappy then. How do you recommend I clean out all the sludge from it, is it a gravel and rotator job or am i better off pressure washing etc. Do i then need to coat the inside? What do you all recommend.

Thanks very much for all the advice, very much appreciated!

Cheers

 

[rtbcomp]

Whilst I've got an inspection port open I'd jet wash it. Loose bits are best removed otherwise they might block the drain cock.

Not sure about coating it, wouldn't know what to use, you got the moisture and rust to consider and anything with flammable solvents in it might cause an explosion risk unless you can remove every last trace.

 

[Eyebrows]

Oh right, very surprised you all class that as ok, I'll give it a pressure wash, to be honest I think I may as well just leave it uncoated and keep it well drained. It'll last a while then when the time comes, won't take the chances and will get a new tank. With pressurised air, I wouldn't be surprised if it get's under a poor paint job very quickly (no chance of a decent paint job in such an enclosed area anyway). The junk at the bottom meant the drain valve was well and truly blocked, so had to take it off and prod it all free. Does anyone know where to get new gaskets for the inspection ports?

I'll scoop the gloop out, give it a good wash out then see how it looks. I think I better get it pressure tested before using it though, don't particularly want to work beside a bomb, even if it's the otherside of a wall!