Arc Welders - Cheap vs Expensive

[scarecrow]

Just had a peek at the plate at the back of mine and I think it gives voltage ratings for the different amps. does the voltage go and down with the amps it doesn't say ocv anywhere all I get is a v

 

[irondarren]

ocv should be constant, its different from the welding voltage. some manufactures list it as OCV some as no lad voltage basically the same thing. Its the voltage at the torch end with no welding load (if that makes sense).
i would imagine if you got a voltage meter and checked it you can tell, but im not sure but be someone like technical al would know

 

[scarecrow]

I'll stick the voltage meter on it tomorrow it's not a very expensive one so I don't mind if I welds the whole thing together.

 

[shenion]

You can measure it with a meter with no load.

It may not be very accurate with a digital meter. An analog one will actually work better on transformer units. Digital ones tend to measure peaks.

It still may need a small load to get the effective voltage.

 

[scarecrow]

You can measure it with a meter with no load.

It may not be very accurate with a digital meter. An analog one will actually work better on transformer units. Digital ones tend to measure peaks.

It still may need a small load to get the effective voltage.

So it a bit of multitasking for me tomorrow the welding and reading ill try anything once

 

[chriskelland]

a digital meter will be accurate on DC - no peak.

If your meter reads pk - pk volts, then rms is .707.

IronDarren, I have just thrown out a transformer unit and now have a Fusion 160MA and I now know just how right you are about the more expensive units. I could not be more pleased with it. OCV, BTW is 92 V DC.

Chris.

 

[madkayaker]

My new tranny have OV of 82V

 

[Muggins the Mug]

I wanted to ask a few questions about the cheap "buzz box" welders without anyone taking offence.

I've read the pros and cons for and against them, but for the first time user/DIY'er with little interest in highly expensive machines, what can these cheap AC only welder do and what would they be realistically used for? Can this be answered in a neutral manner?

I'm trying to be open minded about them and perhaps I did judge the ones that I experienced too harshly. I'm still not convinced about spending alot of money on an inverter that may only be occasionally used.

 

[ben8vgte]

we all used to have cheap (clarke i think) buzz box's in our brakedown/service vans and we all used to fit new air tank holders and side guards ect out site on hgv's with not too many problems, as long as you dont want to weld car bodies or be continuously welding all day long should be fine, or go for second hand oxford and weld all day long

 

[snowcat]

I wanted to ask a few questions about the cheap "buzz box" welders without anyone taking offence.

I've read the pros and cons for and against them, but for the first time user/DIY'er with little interest in highly expensive machines, what can these cheap AC only welder do and what would they be realistically used for? Can this be answered in a neutral manner?

I'm trying to be open minded about them and perhaps I did judge the ones that I experienced too harshly. I'm still not convinced about spending alot of money on an inverter that may only be occasionally used.

The argument isn't that theres anything inherently wrong with cheep buzz boxes, the bickering was bought about by one poster for a good month, pushing one brand of not particular good buzz box onto anyone who would ask a question, arc welding or not.....

most/all who have welded for any decent amount of time professionally or not will have welded at some point with a buzz box, welding positional with such a beast makes the man of you......

the problem with the aldi one its not particularly great in the first place, and with many of these knock em out cheep machines duty cycles are often 10% or worse on the top end, this gives you a minute of welding for every ten.... which even for DIY use is hard going, for a little more money a much better buzz box could be bought, or even an S/H oxford, say around the £50 mark.....

no if its for occasional use no theres no point in spending £££ but its worth spending enough to buy something thats at least usable...

you can make decent welds with such a machine, rod choice is slightly limited with a normally low OCV and positional is much harder, as is learning to strike off, but its all posible.......

However with thin car type welding, you are on a hiding to nothing, with the best machine in the world this is not really posible....

As I said to start theres nothing wrong with a buzz box just certain ones, IMHO you want 40% duty on the top end over wise there not worth looking at, and this can be obtained without breaking the bank......

 

[Drains]

Nothing wrong with el cheapo buzz boxes in principal Mugs - it depends what you want to do with them.

The quality of welding is largely down to the skill of the operator, the size and type of rods you can use are limited, so's the duty cycle. If you want to get going on the cheap, a buzzbox is the way to go, but don't stint on the rods (no Clarke/un-named Chinese)

 

[chriskelland]

Hi,

I used one for the best part of 20 years for DIY and occasionally a weekend of work on the miniature railway. As said nothing wrong with them, just a lump to carry around. Stick to known brands, SIP, Clarke etc. plenty of info on the forum.

Chris.

 

[Muggins the Mug]

I must admit I did have major problems with the rods sticking to the job, but I think that was my fault to be fair to the machine. I did do some beads without it sticking, but I didn't use anything larger than the 2mm rods provided with the welder (running @ 65A). The rods sticking did put me off somewhat as well as the other things.

Regarding the selection of rods, there's not much choice round here from doing a search on Google. I'll check my local Thomson's Directory to see if it comes up with something. I've got a local Halfords that selling those SIP rods @ £3.50 for 10. I know that most people in here recommend to stay away from the car auto shops type rods, so I'll definitely keep that in mind. I defer to those with greater experience than me in such matters.

 

[ben8vgte]

just keep trying, i hadnt used an arc set for a long time till recently now that i'm draging and not pushing it's a lot better, too long with a mig i think

 

[Muggins the Mug]

occasionally a weekend of work on the miniature railway.
Chris.

I've not done anything on the miniature railway scale but the smaller model railways back in the late 80's/early 90's. Mostly "OO" and "HO" scales, Modern Image then Continental.

 

[malcolm]

I must admit I did have major problems with the rods sticking to the job, but I think that was my fault to be fair to the machine.

So far as I have been led to believe (and I'm yet to actually try arc welding) the tendency for rods to stick can be reduced either with a higher voltage or by clever inverter electrickery. Or it can be overcome with practice and a good choice of rods. I suspect the low OCV (open circuit voltage) is a design feature of cheaper AC transformer based welders as even those in the £150 range seem to have 50V OCV.

Though I picked up some suggestion that you weren't best pleased by the quality of the welder you tried, and you might prefer a better quality buzzbox.

Anyone know if the slightly pricier buzzboxes offer a difference in welding experience, or is it just a case of quality, reliability, and a more usable duty cycle?

 

[scarecrow]

Most welding rods have an minimum of 50ocv printed on the box just tested by Welder and it has ocv of 65v it costs around €450

 

[irondarren]

The el cheapos arent fan assisted, the more expensive ones are fan assisted which obviously increase, duty cycle due to forced air. just looked through the sip range all there transformer types seem to be 50v ocv. now i just looked at the big fat esab dc rectified unit at a whooping 800amps, they run at 56v ocv.
I begining to wonder if its just the trickery of an inverter that allows ocv of 90+ volts, and of course those big fat Tig units.
MTA sell some transformer TIG/MMA unit (possibly made by the portamig people, would have to ask weldy about that) they knock out 75v ocv.
It does look like most transformer types are around 50v

 

[Drains]

I must admit I did have major problems with the rods sticking to the job, but I think that was my fault to be fair to the machine. I did do some beads without it sticking, but I didn't use anything larger than the 2mm rods provided with the welder (running @ 65A). The rods sticking did put me off somewhat as well as the other things.

Regarding the selection of rods, there's not much choice round here from doing a search on Google. I'll check my local Thomson's Directory to see if it comes up with something. I've got a local Halfords that selling those SIP rods @ £3.50 for 10. I know that most people in here recommend to stay away from the car auto shops type rods, so I'll definitely keep that in mind. I defer to those with greater experience than me in such matters.

Hey Muggins. There's a BOC in Irvine. They should be able to sort you out for rods.

BOC Gases
6 McMillan Place
Oldhall West Industrial Estate, Irvine, KA11
01294 311379

 

[Muggins the Mug]

Hey Muggins. There's a BOC in Irvine. They should be able to sort you out for rods.

BOC Gases
6 McMillan Place
Oldhall West Industrial Estate, Irvine, KA11
01294 311379

Great stuff Simon. I'll give them a wee bell in the morning. They're apparently located near to a scrappy, so I'll see if I can get some off cuts of mild steel plate to fart around with too.