Best carbide insert shape/type?

[Hood]

Now this is just me and what I would do I would go for a SDJCR and a SDJCL, that way you can do most turning jobs you encounter. You can turn, back turn, face, profile and even chamfer both front and back.
Granted you only have two edges of the inserts and unlike your choice of tools above once the two edges are done then it is throw them out where your two tools above take all edges of the one insert. I think however you will only ever likely use the SCKCR for chamfering so it is kind of wasted anyway and you can't do back turning or chamfering at the back with them.

Just my thoughts

 

[Hood]

One thing I should add, the CCMT will be a bit stronger than the DCMT but really on a small lathe you shouldn't find the limits of a DCMT unless you try to go crazy

 

[T0rnado69]

I have a Clarke CL250M, my granda died and my uncle passed it on to me.

I have a quick change tool post on it now and it will hold 12mm max.

i had the CL500M but found that the milling side of it was very limited due to the headstock.
but due to the column being damaged it went back.
so i got the CL430 instead and a separate milling machine.

yer its not a myford a Colchester or Harrison....

some dont have the space for a large lathe...

its a reasonable size. and mounted on top of a bench.

does what i need.....

 

[Imakora]

I'll reply twice, might get edited again though...

The reason I said what I put originally (which was removed without my knowledge) is because I've seen the same thing before.

Someone asks "what's the best x for y", I say it depends on circumstances, they come back with "mewmewmew, some bloke on the internet/down the pub/on YouTube says this is best", then ask why it's not working as they expected - in some cases actually blaming me for it.

So, these days I'll still try to offer advice when I feel it's appropriate but my tolerance for "oh but xx says" is drastically reduced - hence the "pick the prettiest one, idgaf" attitude.

I thoroughly enjoy this forum as folk like myself are able to learn so much. I have always been told that the only stupid question is the one that is not asked. I hope one day to have expanded my knowledge enough to give contribute in a more meaningful way to this forum.

 

[Rig Pig]

I have a Clarke CL250M, my granda died and my uncle passed it on to me.
It is a small crappy lathe, but i have done some good work on it >click for link< and saved some money.
I put any metal that will fit in it and turn it, i was doing some EN8 today, i know, horrible to machine, but its what i had.
I got some tools with it, but im starting to run out after damaging them, the lathe would be an ornament with no cutting tools.
I have a quick change tool post on it now and it will hold 12mm max

I used to have access to a big lathe and had set up a bench grinder to sharpen HSS tool steel with, but bad things happened and all that is gone.
I learned how to sharpen cutting tools from HSS blanks.I dont have a suitable grinder to make HSS tools now and im not going to get one.
I just see the same results from the carbide tips as the HSS and thought indexable would be a fuss free way to go.

That kit from India is what im after, but minus the boring bar. I will try to find something similar from the UK that wont cost too much.

Why are you not keen to just buy another little grinder? I use all most all HSS tooling on my little S&B and I wouldn't be without a means of sharpening tools and drills. Even the cheapest grinder is capable of useful work. If your struggling to get the angels on tools you can make some very simple jigs, a few minutes on Google will give you loads of pictures & plans.

I'm not saying that tipped tools aren't useful however they are usually designed to run at very high speed in a ridged machine, slow, under powered, flexible and worn machinery isn't going to give as good a result. HSS is a lot more forgiving.

 

[fixedfixer]

As a complete novice, I benefit greatly from the knowledge and skills that folk share on this forum. Threads like this are a great source of info and certainly help guide people like myself in the right direction. Keep the info coming all.

Second that. I am also a novice and trying to get to grips with my mini lathe (Chester DB7Vs). I've not got beyond HSS tools and am working on making a small engine from designs found on the web. It's an Elmer Wobbler No 25 that's supposed to be an ideal starter project for beginners like me.

 

[cumbriasteve]

OK
It never occurred to me that a mod would have edited your post for you.

I was the mod who edited the post, why the normal edit info was not shown I do not know, informing a member of editing by pm is only the norm when it is considered strong enough to warrant it, in this case I judged it to be far from that, hence no pm.

If we sent a pm out with every edit we would require another dozen mod's at least.

I responded to a report of the content and felt the same as the person who reported it, PDG's experience is usually very good and his input has a lot of value to the forum, the last paragraph I judged had been borne out of frustration because he rightly or wrongly thought his advice was not being valued.

I have now tidied the thread.

 

[HughF]

DCGT, not CNMG (as most holders for CNMG are negative rake and you need a beefy machine to run negative rake tooling)... It is what I use for general turning on both my VSL and my old LeBlond

 

[dobbslc]

GreasedUpDeafGuy don't be defeated man! I too only have a hobby lathe (Chester 3 in 1 mill lathe type thing)
They can be made to do decent work but I believe it's more of a faff to do it than a "proper" lathe.
I started with hss tooling but just couldn't get it to work for me, I then tried tungsten tipped tools with much better results BUT I have trouble sharpening them well, sometimes it works OK sometimes not!
Now I'm using some indexable insert tools that seem to be working well but do need to be worked a lot harder than the other types, faster rpm and deeper cuts. The lathe will do it but has to have little slop in the gibs, tight tool post fixings, short projection from tool post etc.
The insert tools are good in that if you bugger up a tip you can quickly swap it round with out having to adjust the tool height. Yes some of us don't have quick change tool posts!!!
Get your centre height bang on or you'll be scraping the work not cutting it.
I got a Sandvik STGCR tool holder that takes TCMT inserts, they are triangular so you get 3 tips per insert. (Thanks to @Hood for help here)

I

This tool seems better than the cheap ones I got with the lathe and the ones you linked to. The Glanze ones are good though. Car boot sales or better still autojumbles are gold for finding stuff cheap.
Be sure you get the right inserts for your holder as they have lots of different shapes and sizes!
That chart I linked to earlier will help here but you DO need to know what holder you have first, that's where buying a decent new one will help as you know what fits it.
Hope this helps.
Dobbs

 

[ukracer]

To be honest, it seems im here to show myself up and end up with my head in my hands.
Someones got to be asking the questions for threads like this to provide the info for novices.

I can assure you that you are not showing yourself up. What's showing yourself up when you ask a question you don't know?? If we all knew everything we could all be........

 

[ukracer]

DCGT, not CNMG (as most holders for CNMG are negative rake and you need a beefy machine to run negative rake tooling)... It is what I use for general turning on both my VSL and my old LeBlond

That's more like the info that will assist the OP.

I am trying to assist and was not aware of that .

 

[ukracer]

I have a Clarke CL250M, my granda died and my uncle passed it on to me.
It is a small crappy lathe, but i have done some good work on it >click for link< and saved some money.
I put any metal that will fit in it and turn it, i was doing some EN8 today, i know, horrible to machine, but its what i had.
I got some tools with it, but im starting to run out after damaging them, the lathe would be an ornament with no cutting tools.
I have a quick change tool post on it now and it will hold 12mm max

I used to have access to a big lathe and had set up a bench grinder to sharpen HSS tool steel with, but bad things happened and all that is gone.
I learned how to sharpen cutting tools from HSS blanks.I dont have a suitable grinder to make HSS tools now and im not going to get one.
I just see the same results from the carbide tips as the HSS and thought indexable would be a fuss free way to go.

That kit from India is what im after, but minus the boring bar. I will try to find something similar from the UK that wont cost too much.

You have given us a lot more I found now so members can give you info based on the updated details.

 

[knighty]

slightly off topic, but I needed to turn/true up the outside of a disk and then face off the disk face
(disk is hard stainless fixed to the end of a shaft)

disk about 8inch diameter, 15mm thick (don't you just love it when people mix metric and imperial in the same sentence!)

I didn't have my lathe then, so popped to a mates to use his myford ML7

he had a box full of HHS tools he bought on ebay cheap, killed about 6 of them before he gave up, no matter what we tried they wouldn't cut properly.... so I raced off to a local tool/carbide tip supplier.... £50 for the tool holder and box of 10tips

and it cut through it like a hot knife through butter, difference was like night and day


so don't despair if you you only have a little lathem and imo the carbide tips/tools are well worth the investment


I just bought a load for my lathe, got the ones Adam/Abom recommended (guy in video posted earlier), was careful to buy tools that all used the same tip size/type so I don't have to buy so many tips

 

[WorkshopChris]

I will try maybe in the new year to obtain a few different types of tooling from inserts to hss and try to compare, like for like same material same cuts, feed etc.
Might be interesting to see how things compare and whats required to get the best from each. Will have a think about it.

That's more like the info that will assist the OP.

I am trying to assist and was not aware of that .

Same hear i have used tipped tooling that works well and some that will not, its a subject all on its own.

When i used to set the cnc routers for a new type of job we would often get a rep from the tooling company out to try a few things.

 

[ukracer]

I will try maybe in the new year to obtain a few different types of tooling from inserts to hss and try to compare, like for like same material same cuts, feed etc.
Might be interesting to see how things compare and whats required to get the best from each. Will have a think about it.



Same hear i have used tipped tooling that works well and some that will not, its a subject all on its own.

When i used to set the cnc routers for a new type of job we would often get a rep from the tooling company out to try a few things.

I have a Colchester master 2500 and it can take big cuts when it's right. But recently I have had problems and something is not r8ght.

I sold my raglan 5 inch as I did not have spent for 2 and I wanted a mill. (My wife thought otherwise) anyway I had not tools handy when the guys can to view the lathe. I grabbed some tool steel and used my angle grinder.

The tool cut nice. So I left it in ready. The guys came and had a play. It cut nice and then they wound on approx 1/4 inch of cut and pulled the auto feed......when I saw how much it was cutting I cringed and waited for a big bang BUT it cut a treat.

It was that good I was hoping they did not want the lathe

But it just goes to show small lathes can cut well if you take the time to learn what is needed......or get lucky like I did.

 

[ukracer]

The section on carbide inserts might explain a few things. I was not aware I was actually supposed to be aiming for broken blue chips.

 

[Member 66061]

The section on carbide inserts might explain a few things. I was not aware I was actually supposed to be aiming for broken blue chips.

Well, thats it, i relent. I will get some 3/8" HSS blanks and grind some tools. I didnt want the fuss of grinding, thats why ive been so stubborn.
Everyones persistence has payed off. Thanks to everyone for their advice.
Be prepared for my next adventure.....trying to part off

 

[Hood]

LOL the guy is using a negative insert, as I mentioned earlier they are really more suited to a bigger lathe because they need a bit of rigidity and power to work effectively. If using a positive insert on a wee lathe you can get away with murder and break all the normal rules associated with carbide. Here is a video I made to show how to set up tools in the tool table of Mach 3, not much interest to you other than in the video at around 2min 30 seconds you will see me manually taking a cut on some steel, probably just mild steel. Anyway you will see I only have the spindle at 500rpm and I am manually jogging and you will see the swarf is not long strands, that is because it is a positive insert. Later on I do the tool setup with a round insert, I take a bit too much depth for the wee lathe, also I had hastily just put it back together to do the video before I stripped it down finally (used a lot of the parts for my plasma build), so gibs were not adjusted correctly. Again you will see they are fairly small chips, the positive geometry of the tool is not using much power and the chip breaker is doing its job even at 500rpm.

Now I am not saying carbide is better than HSS, for some things it is but you can do good stuff with HSS and grinding your own tools teaches a valuable skill. In a hobby environment then HSS has a big part to play as you can spend time regrinding and honing etc without having to worry about the clock ticking, anyway here is the vid.

 

[Mee]

Why are you not keen to just buy another little grinder? I use all most all HSS tooling on my little S&B and I wouldn't be without a means of sharpening tools and drills. Even the cheapest grinder is capable of useful work. If your struggling to get the angels on tools you can make some very simple jigs, a few minutes on Google will give you loads of pictures & plans.

I'm not saying that tipped tools aren't useful however they are usually designed to run at very high speed in a ridged machine, slow, under powered, flexible and worn machinery isn't going to give as good a result. HSS is a lot more forgivi

On the Colchester 2000 its all carbide as it has the power and speed/feed ranges to run them, but on my baby lathe which I use for small jobs I find HSS much better and HSS gives a better finish where a fine finish is required.

With the range of carbide tooling about I find it hit and miss with smaller machines as I have had some top branded names which are rubbish and some which are much better, but few live up to correctly ground HSS.

Horses for courses I suppose.

 

[Member 66061]

These are the instructions i learned how to grind tools from. I made a suitable tool rest for a bench grinder and set it up as instructed aswell. I could make good tools. http://www.tascione.com/Sherlinelathe_ins/grinding.htm The big lathe and grinder i set up have gone.