Blacksmith Leg Vice

[minimutly]

I have always known them to be cast steel components which are then forge welded where necessary. You wouldn't want to forge the intricate shape of those jaws from stock materials!

You can see signs of it with the lower moving jaw brackets - forge welded in place for example. I suspect the jaw "inserts" are also separate components forge welded to the cast (and forged!) jaw bodies.

Can you forge weld steel (or iron if you like) to cast?

 

[Screwdriver]

Can you forge weld steel (or iron if you like) to cast?

I doubt it. Cast iron has too much silicon in it I should expect. Probably crumble at forge welding heat. Google says you can weld some specialty types of cast iron but the regular stuff we are likely to find will be full of rubbish. Then of course it would have to cool down from super high heat without shattering!

Wrought iron on the other hand is a joy to forge weld. It is a fascinating subject in it's own right all these steel alloys.

 

[Tractor Tony]

Ohh. I found this which @Anthony Spencer might find interesting...

Restoring a post leg vice

I snapped up a broken post leg vice off eBay for £20 (and ended up paying double to have it delivered LOL). It is a six inch version and, frankly, massive. Easily 50kg it dwarfs my spindly four inch vices though you would never know it just by glancing at a photo. One of the jaws has...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

Thank you.
Yes I am reading all the articles and watching YouTube videos to try and get as much info as possible.
One of the benefits of being retired is I am able to spend time researching stuff.
I do wish I had not sold my Myford Lathe as I now find myself needing parts made for various projects.

 

[bricol]

For the life of me I can't see a use I'd have for one of those.

I couldn't either - so I moved on the one that came into my possession, that too was missing the baseplate.

Horses for courses . . .

 

[Tractor Tony]

I have seen them used in a multitude of ways, I had a friend who was a rifle maker and ye used one.
I work on agricultural machinery and I find them extremely useful when I need something to take a real pounding.
As you say Horses for Courses

 

[Screwdriver]

I couldn't either - so I moved on the one that came into my possession, that too was missing the baseplate.

Horses for courses . . .

They are a marvel of design when you look at how they function. The whole purpose is to direct any shock forces straight down into the floor. It is only connected to the bench by a beautifully simple wedge lock which also clamps the spring to the main body.

 

[h-dom]

I have always known them to be cast steel components which are then forge welded where necessary. You wouldn't want to forge the intricate shape of those jaws from stock materials!

You can see signs of it with the lower moving jaw brackets - forge welded in place for example. I suspect the jaw "inserts" are also separate components forge welded to the cast (and forged!) jaw bodies.

They are all forged, no casting

Yes, separate pieces forged and then forge welded to each other, but 100% fully forged.

Remember they were probably forged with a steam hammer and all sorts of dies which made the process a lot simpler

@Anthony Spencer don't worry about the repair, if it opens and closes square and tight then just use it for its purpose!

 

[Tractor Tony]

A lot of work with the Dremel tool and the 2 parts are separated, I am guessing I will need to make a bush to make up the difference in diameter.

 

[Screwdriver]

They are all forged, no casting

Yes, separate pieces forged and then forge welded to each other, but 100% fully forged.

Remember they were probably forged with a steam hammer and all sorts of dies which made the process a lot simpler

@Anthony Spencer don't worry about the repair, if it opens and closes square and tight then just use it for its purpose!

I would be very interested to see an article for how these things were manufactured. Clearly there were/are a multitude of possibilities. Certainly the cleanliness and relative similarities indicate a final drop forge process but just looking at the item, I would not want to start from a large square or round billet.

Much more likely the major items are first cast into an approximate size and shape before being drop forged and then hand forged, forge welded etc. I can tell you for certain that many of the larger parts are built up from individual components which were subsequently forge welded into place.

Like I said, not all vices were produced in the same manner so you can't say they were all stamped out under a steam hammer. The process is far more involved and multiple varieties having a similar style have been produced over the centuries by an equal variety of methods. Many of the earlier vices of this type were hand forged from wrought iron or "wrought" from it for example.

 

[Tractor Tony]

Well finally managed to get the thrust washer cleaned up.

the next stage is to get a bush made to reduce the i.d to that of the male screw section. My Plan is make it Top Hat shaped so that it an be blend into the the profile of the screw section.

 

[h-dom]

I would be very interested to see an article for how these things were manufactured. Clearly there were/are a multitude of possibilities. Certainly the cleanliness and relative similarities indicate a final drop forge process but just looking at the item, I would not want to start from a large square or round billet.

Much more likely the major items are first cast into an approximate size and shape before being drop forged and then hand forged, forge welded etc. I can tell you for certain that many of the larger parts are built up from individual components which were subsequently forge welded into place.

Like I said, not all vices were produced in the same manner so you can't say they were all stamped out under a steam hammer. The process is far more involved and multiple varieties having a similar style have been produced over the centuries by an equal variety of methods. Many of the earlier vices of this type were hand forged from wrought iron or "wrought" from it for example.

I would say 99% of those you see are forged wrought iron. I thought that's what we were talking about...indeed every one I have had pass through has been forged wrought iron.

I have seen cast leg vices but they are more modern/brand new versions.

 

[6ply]

Hi Folks.

here are some before shots.

I will take some of the thrust washer later today

View attachment 420784 View attachment 420785 View attachment 420786

I may have one just like that in the shed. Never really get around to doing anything with it as no real use. Could make a good always outdoors vice though, maybe. I'll drag it out when it's not dark and raining and see if it has a thrust washer.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I'll drag it out when it's not dark and raining

So, around May of next year?

 

[Screwdriver]

I would say 99% of those you see are forged wrought iron. I thought that's what we were talking about...indeed every one I have had pass through has been forged wrought iron.

I have seen cast leg vices but they are more modern/brand new versions.

What makes you say that? Very early vices were made from wrought iron but they are relatively soft and hugely expensive being effectively hand made. You wouldn't really need a steam hammer to drop forge it either. Forged iron also is extremely easy to spot when it has any age to it. It delaminates and looks like weathered wood. I have had several post leg vices and none of them were wrought. Not even sure if any parts of them were.

I still have a few scattered around and I'll take a closer look but I am pretty sure they're all cast steel.

I might be totally wrong about this but finding hard information is tricky. Also "cast steel" is a teensy bit contentious since all steel stock has been molten and formed at some stage. I suggest these old vices had specific stock steel castings from which the individual parts have been forged and them assembled by forge welding. Very much like most older anvils...

 

[Tractor Tony]

This is my idea for a carrier for the thrust washer.
I welcome all comments and yes I know I am not a draughtsman.

 

[Tractor Tony]

I think the thrust washer is grey cast iron, that's what I made mine from.

Needs to be a relatively slippery item imho, hence going out of the way to use cast.

Be interesting to see if the welded on washer on yours has gone glass hard from welding, that might give a clue what it's made from. Typically the vice body will be cast steel of course.

Hi Screwdriver.

No the washer has not gone glass hard.
I was able to file off the remains of the welds and clean up the face.

 

[6ply]

So, around May of next year?

Wrong

 

[Tractor Tony]

Are you going to het it set up and use it ?

 

[Tractor Tony]

Got the thrust washer carrier made thanks to Doubleboost.

 

[dobbslc]

For the life of me I can't see a use I'd have for one of those.

Neither could I but I've still got one
Took 3 years to get it unsiezed and I'll put it in my forge (carport) when I rebuild it.