brands of good arc rods

[snowcat]

What's they?

(i've also got a couple of packs of bronze rods. Mmmm)

Not the colour on the bo, btw

Now this is where it all falls to pot, because I cant remember what Ti rods are for??? I think there a high alloyed rod, I know there single position with a mass of black flux on them, now I'm guessing the Ti means they have leave titanium in the deposit???? anyway was given about a dozen boxes of the suckers years back, funny enough my need for em is well errrm slim, but you have to have don't cha....the only other black fluxed rods iv come across are gouging rods.....

Iv got a nice box of AL rods as well now thanks to Mr zzzrrrrr, mmmhhh

 

[matt1978]

Not true purple and yellow boxes work better, always impossible to get a peeler from blue, or red boxes.....Dont like a red AWS No. either they always give issues in position..........phaa physiological, this is all science mate....

You forgot about white boxes!!

Babcocks 'own' rods are in Blue boxes and it used to be peeler city, when we were doing our welder training!!

 

[HasBean]

Only have two choices here, SIP packs of 10 rods in a 'loverly' plastic packet for £4 or £5 which weld like :full (and I am useless at arc but my IFL 180MA is really nice to use), or Eutectic CPI 436's (6013's) which are brilliant in comparison and can get a peeler 80% of the time (on a flat bar of course, joint is too much as yet, still practising ) and £13 for 5kg box

Anyone know of these rods? Nothing on the Castolin website about them I can find (have mailed but no reply)

 

[TechnicAl]

Al, got a question for you. I have a bunch of rods of various sizes fitting your description of cast iron rods, and have (until now) been wondering what they were.

They're old Stubbs rods. Very black, they ARE magnetic, of course, and a spark test on a bead revealed very few sparks, so cast seems likely - you think?

Also, they leave a fine glassy slag, and when un-dried, during welding, the slag moves from electrode to work in blobs. I'm about to throw some in the oven for a while, then have a go and see how they perform.

Would they be for cold or hot welding Al?

They sound like Nickel or Nickel-Iron rods for COLD welding cast iron. Stubs were very prominent in this market. The theory is that unless you can get the cast iron very hot (over 500oC) there is little point in preheating when using this type of rod. The Nickel blocks the transfer of Carbon from the Cast Iron so it stays malleable.
The nickel will weld just about any cast iron (some white irons and alloyed irons are totally unweldable). The NiFe are really for the malleable types (SG, blackheart etc) so are a little less versatile but produce a stronger weld.
The rods should run on low current (again cold) so a 4mm should run on about 100-120 amps. Use small short runs and allow to cool between passes. Peening the weld also helps relieve stress. When you dry them dont get them too hot they might crumble (105oC for 30 mins should do it)

 

[snowcat]

So AL to preheat or not, The institute have as a rough guide recommended 200-300C of preheat, so is this always necessary with Ni, rods??? I always understand that stress is most likely to occur getting the work to temp, then on the cooling cycle hence post heating, but your recommending a cooling cycle between stringers, thus causing more stress to the work, just interested on your take on the whole procidure...

 

[TechnicAl]

In my experience 300oC has very little influence on cracking if your using a Nickel rod. Castings are very rarely uniform thickness and quite often they have both thick and thin sections. In such castings the preheat can cause as many problems as it solves so its better not to preheat.
The Nickel base rods are very malleable and take up any stress quite easily, peening after welding also relieves stress. By keeping it cool you dont set up much stress.

If you can find a copy of the original description of "cold welding" published by Stubs Welding there is no mention of preheat. This 300oC has crept in quite recently.

I rarely recommend preheat.

 

[flange jockey]

i was hoking around our shop the other day and i found these, about 8 years ago a job cropped up that required a test then filler and cap on the job with these.im near sure tig root. thing is they turned out so good we wanted to keep using them but old misery said they were too expensive. any info as to price would be appreciated al also general info it may be chrom mol. f/j

 

[snowcat]

Ohhh 8018s hey FJ, low alloy, high tensile rod, I use a 7016 UTP Comet J 50N instead as they spec up pretty much equivelent, and weld lovely....Not sure on the price I pay for them but there not cheep.....

 

[flange jockey]

snowy honestly, that means nothing to me, i really am ignorant to all this,i have picked up on these boards 80 denotes 80,000 psi but if you asked me last week if i had burnt 80 rods i would have said no. the reason i went looking for those rods was that a similar job has come up and without any discussion with us welders the engineer ordered these rods, if the above 80 rods were an option we would have preferred those. thanks for any info lads thanks for your time snowy. f/j

 

[snowcat]

A 7018 basic low-Hi rod F/J, to be fair on your boss I have a feeling the 8018s might be hard to come by these days....

The plot thickens tho, I happen to have these in the boiler cupboard delivered yesterday for a full wps, lifting gear type job, however an 8018 was spec ed on the original but as this was not common now, It cross referenced to thease.......again a bohler rod, but look what else is printed on the packet, The same brand as your original 8018!!!

 

[flange jockey]

we have a wee portugeezer working with us at the moment snowy, he cant get his hand round 6013 so he orders in these. would these not have been good enough for this job, theres always a supply. f/j

 

[snowcat]

TBH F/J yes I would have thought they would have proberbly be better than the 7018s, Its a softer arc with more peal on the slag, the 7016s are more pricey (could have been the reason for the 18s) or maybe Its strictly what the WPS says and he's sticking to It...????

 

[zardoz]

Wow, when i started this thread back in November, little did i think it would still be going 6 months later! I thought maybe 6 or 7 replies and the thread would die a natural death.

Its all interesting info though. I have certainly learned that the brand and type of Rod can have a huge difference to the weld, much more than i ever thought.

 

[TechnicAl]

The first one is a Tenasoudo 3 Ni which is a 3.5% Nickel steel (basically mild steel + nickel) which is designed for high strength low temperature applications (cryogenic). Very rare as the application range is very limited. They will be OK for welding mild steel a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut
The next one 7018-A1 is a mild steel plus 0.5% molybdenum which will give slightly higher strength plus reistance to sagging at slightly elevated temperatures (creep resistance) it is the first step to a Chrome Moly. Again will be OK on mild steel
The Filarc 56S is a 7016 which is the same as a 7018 but without the iron powder and as uch gives a cleaner weld (less impurities) and better mechanical properties. Because there is no iron powder the arc is less stable but the weld metal is easier to control. They tend to be used for root runs in thick plate butt welds but can be used for any mild steel.

All in all if you are doing "garden gate" work they are all OK but it would be a lot easier to use a 6013 Rutile rod.

 

[lovelectricity]

ok heres what i did, earlier today i went to mole valley farmers. they have a reasonable selection of electrodes, along with stuff to get rid of moles for farmers who live in valleys. needed some 2.5 6013s they had murex, esab etc. i found some murex white boxes at £12.95 for 4.8kg and some murex zodian universal for £18.50 for 2.4kg. big difference, heres where the plot thickens. both made by esab in hunary for murex??? anyway needing some more bought both for a side by side test. there is a difference. done on a big rusty lump of steel i reserve for such things, the zodian has a nicer appearance, although i thought a gnats cock stickier to start(both did start really easily though in fairness) both ran nearly identically although i did prefere the zodian. so zodian £7.71 per kg, murex white box £2.70 per kg. difficult one spot the difference.sorry the photos are crap. oh yes the slag peeled and almost fell off both.

 

[snowcat]

Al, the final use on those 7016s, would have liked to have seen some 30 degree preps on those hangers but the WPS insisted on a straight fillet with just a 1/4" leg, Im guessing a large J or V might cause a stress point in the mast...

 

[flange jockey]

zardoz it was a good subject, it deserved a good reply. al thanks for the info, i was working with a welder who was on the first job,he reckons it was an ammonia line,you have cleared that up, thanks. ly we have always had trouble getting the boss to buy zodian they were always considered a smother rod to use,i didn,t appreciate the price difference. snowy fernando also swears by these. mobile pics im afraid f/j

 

[lovelectricity]

hi flange jockey about 3 posts up i compared zodian with murex white box, the zodian is a nicer weld. but expensive compared. i aint no pro but i know what feels nice to use.

 

[snowcat]

F/J are they an 7018??? I can just make out the 70.... Im 90% Bohler, with a few ESABs, I used white boxed 6013s for a while, thats when BOC were selling Lincolns as boxed whites, But they started F'ing round with the supplys so no two boxes or even rods would weld the same... So its even Bohlers on the 6013s now..

Murex used to do 6013, 3.25 in a 450mm, cant think what the name of them was, but they were a decent rod to use.

 

[lovelectricity]

snowcat they were called vodex i think, good but a bit long for general stuff. turns out murex rods are made by esab.