Clarke CBS45MD 6x4 Metal Cutting Bandsaw Modifications

[I'm getting on a bit]

A jig like this is on my todo list. Not i know its down to my welding if it's a success.

Having used an I built welder I would stick with the blowtorch. STARTRITE

The machine I used got too hot too quick and cooled too quick as well so the welds were never that great

 

[Wallace]

A jig like this is on my todo list. Not i know its down to my welding if it's a success.

Having used an I built welder I would stick with the blowtorch. STARTRITE

The machine I used got too hot too quick and cooled too quick as well so the welds were never that great

Most bandsaws I have seen or used with blade welders were unusable or disabled, getting a good weld and anneal out of them is beyond some people and treated as a dark art or voodoo. The hardest part so far for me has been fine tuning the Tig welding and not getting any undercut on the blade edges without distortion hence using up 93 inches of old blade practicing. The secret to a successful blade joint is definitely the annealing and a controlled electrical process would be nice to aid consistency but not essential for my use at home.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Can I suggest that you copy your blade welding post and repost it as a new thread, hopefully a MOD could either 'Sticky' it or put it into the 'How To' section.
It's a really useful guide on blade welding that could get lost in the middle of the bandsaw thread.

 

[Wallace]

Can I suggest that you copy your blade welding post and repost it as a new thread, hopefully a MOD could either 'Sticky' it or put it into the 'How To' section.
It's a really useful guide on blade welding that could get lost in the middle of the bandsaw thread.

Thanks for the compliment. I was thinking it could really do with being a post on it's own although I am still on a learning curve and would like to wear a few blades out first to prove the process and refine the tools a little. I would hate it to read as "I know what I am doing and this IS the way to do it"!

 

[Wallace]

Whist changing a blade I decided to address an issue that has annoyed me since buying the bandsaw, the blade guide roller blocks are castings and their fixings tighten down onto the uneven cast finish. The surfaces were pretty good for bare casting but apart from not being good engineering practice the uneven surface makes adjustment difficult so a skim across on the mill was in order.

Bare minimum skim across face with a ball nose cutter to keep casting radius.

Ditto skim on opposite face.

During bearing removal something looked out of shape so after some measuring and head scratching I came to the conclusion two different datum faces have been used for machining as the top blade roller hole and front face are not parallel to the block mounting face but the holes for the other two rollers are. Annoying, but no big deal as it barely affects the blade in use but if using the front face for mounting the sawing table as Clarke supply the cuts will not be square. But hey, the Clarke table is so flimsy I doubt you would notice!

Bearing shaft and front face not parallel to mounting blockface.

Front face shown against a parallel, slightly pished!

This was the bare minimum amount needed to square up the front face!

On this particular blade guide block part of the casting that overhangs the bearing has a habit of fouling the vice and as it serves no purpose I machined the sides off.

Eccentric adjuster high points marked.

One other feature I decided to add is a marking to each of the blade side rollers to indicate the high point on the eccentric adjusters. I considered clocking them up in the lathe and running a cutting tool tip across the end to give the centreline but opted for a centre punch mark and yellow paint instead.

Thick plate washer and cap head to replace originals on adjustment slot.

Completed assembly, other end looks the same.

Once refitted adjustment was much easier and more precise as the large washer has a smooth flat surface to slide on and clamp against. The yellow eccentric high point marks are a real bonus too as you can easily tell where the cam is pointing.

I found a bit of a bum steer in the Clarke Operation & Maintenance Instructions that might be worth noting as my machine came supplied with four eccentric adjusters whereas the book says two;

• The inner guide bearing is fixed and cannot be adjusted.
• The outer guide bearing is mounted to an eccentric bolt and can be adjusted.
• There should be 0.001" clearance between a 0.025" thickness blade and the guide bearings.

This was copied from the latest online manual, I double checked in the manual supplied with my machine and the text is the same, perhaps the day mine was assembled they had run out of non eccentric bolts and doubled up. Also, the parts diagram and list is well to cock and should be taken like the rest of the book as more of a guide!

See here: Clarke Operation & Maintenance Instructions

 

[Flathead_Dave]

Some good info here.For about five years I've had the Gingery book on building a monster one,I might have it done in another five years.
Just a note on bearings,the metal shielded version is used on motors,alternators etc,where heat and dust are the enemy.Where water is involved,the rubber shielded version should be used.

 

[Turbo]

You made a nice job of tidying up those castings Wallace. It's something I would like to do on my saws but I don't have a milling machine - would you like a job?

Went to use the 6x4 saw I use for mitres last week and it has suddenly started cutting off square vertically - it was cutting perfectly last time I used it. Even though it had a fairly new M42 blade in it I fitted a brand new one - no better. So I started trying to adjust the guide bearings to get it to cut square. I had to take the die grinder to one casting to give me more adjustment and fiddled around with it for hours before I got it cutting square.

Then I discovered that the bottom guide rollers fouled the vice when I swung it round for cutting 45 deg. Adjusted it back which undid all the previous work and the saw was cutting off square again! I lifted the club hammer and I've never been closer to busting something! Spent another few hours setting it up and this time I had to have the blade set at an angle well off square to the bed in order to get it to cut square!

I noticed that the inside of the blade didn't feel as sharp as the outside. On investigation the blade is running high on the idler wheel and I think that may be damaging the inside teeth. There is a small chamfer on the wheel to allow for the teeth but I don't think that it's deep enough.

 

[Wallace]

Some good info here.For about five years I've had the Gingery book on building a monster one,I might have it done in another five years.
Just a note on bearings,the metal shielded version is used on motors,alternators etc,where heat and dust are the enemy.Where water is involved,the rubber shielded version should be used.

Cheers Dave. I plan to replace the guide rollers with full sealed one day when the suds tray and pump gets done, the tray is sat against the wall waiting for the round tuit!

You made a nice job of tidying up those castings Wallace. It's something I would like to do on my saws but I don't have a milling machine - would you like a job?

Went to use the 6x4 saw I use for mitres last week and it has suddenly started cutting off square vertically - it was cutting perfectly last time I used it. Even though it had a fairly new M42 blade in it I fitted a brand new one - no better. So I started trying to adjust the guide bearings to get it to cut square. I had to take the die grinder to one casting to give me more adjustment and fiddled around with it for hours before I got it cutting square.

Then I discovered that the bottom guide rollers fouled the vice when I swung it round for cutting 45 deg. Adjusted it back which undid all the previous work and the saw was cutting off square again! I lifted the club hammer and I've never been closer to busting something! Spent another few hours setting it up and this time I had to have the blade set at an angle well off square to the bed in order to get it to cut square!

I noticed that the inside of the blade didn't feel as sharp as the outside. On investigation the blade is running high on the idler wheel and I think that may be damaging the inside teeth. There is a small chamfer on the wheel to allow for the teeth but I don't think that it's deep enough.

Thanks, and I feel your pain! There should be a Clarke Sponsored Support Group on call 24/7! I started the setup from scratch when refitting the fettled parts and new blade then spent a while getting the best tracking on a tensioned blade before twisting it 45° to go through the guide rollers. Like you I have spent a long time adjusting the settings to get that perfect square cut but I have found movement in the arm pivot that needs rectifying long before that will ever happen so I have learnt to make do with it, anything critical I square up on the mill or linisher. It does cut nigh on 90° in both planes and facing off fresh cut bar in the lathe I am often only looking at skimming a few though off so it is acceptable for home use. If you want the castings skimmed up I could do them, whereabouts are you?

 

[Richard.]

The time, accuracy and thought going into this. Can't wait to see the finished article. I'm still well impressed with the clear worm and gear drive cover. That's just a cool touch.

 

[Wallace]

The time, accuracy and thought going into this. Can't wait to see the finished article. I'm still well impressed with the clear worm and gear drive cover. That's just a cool touch.

Thanks, I'm !

 

[Turbo]

There should be a Clarke Sponsored Support Group on call 24/7!

There are yahoo groups for us sufferers. Here are 2 I know about, never got around to joining one.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sawking/info
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/info?yguid=199312707

Here's a source for good quality blades, I recommend the M42 ones.
http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

The saw I was having trouble setting up is a Sealey SM65 https://www.toolstoday.co.uk/sealey-metal-cutting-bandsaw-150mm-230v-with-mitre-quick-lock-vice
https://www.toolstoday.co.uk/sealey-metal-cutting-bandsaw-150mm-230v-with-mitre-quick-lock-vice

This model has no tracking adjustment on the idler wheel so if your blade starts coming off its rollers you are screwed. I put a straight edge across both wheels and they are a mile out but I'm afraid to touch them as the blade is running ok.

My other saw is the nutool version of yours. I bought it 2nd hand over 20 years ago and it has cut many metres of steel since. It started messing around last year and I treated it to a overhaul of the blade drives & guides. I also fitted a set of decent skf guide bearings and it made it a lot easier to set up.

If you want the castings skimmed up I could do them, whereabouts are you?

Thanks for the offer but I'm over here in Ireland. I have a vertical milling attachment for my lathe, just never got around to trying it. This might be a good first project!

 

[Richard.]

There are yahoo groups for us sufferers. Here are 2 I know about, never got around to joining one.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sawking/info
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/info?yguid=199312707

Here's a source for good quality blades, I recommend the M42 ones.
http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk/

The saw I was having trouble setting up is a Sealey SM65
https://www.toolstoday.co.uk/sealey-metal-cutting-bandsaw-150mm-230v-with-mitre-quick-lock-vice

This model has no tracking adjustment on the idler wheel so if your blade starts coming off its rollers you are screwed. I put a straight edge across both wheels and they are a mile out but I'm afraid to touch them as the blade is running ok.

My other saw is the nutool version of yours. I bought it 2nd hand over 20 years ago and it has cut many metres of steel since. It started messing around last year and I treated it to a overhaul of the blade drives & guides. I also fitted a set of decent skf guide bearings and it made it a lot easier to set up.



Thanks for the offer but I'm over here in Ireland. I have a vertical milling attachment for my lathe, just never got around to trying it. This might be a good first project!

I use tuff saw blades on mine turbo and if it hadn't snapped (My fault) Id still be on my 1st one since putting it together. I highly recommend them. I've cut lots of stainless on it recently and given stainlesses nature of work hardening at the slightest rub ive had to put the pressure on the blade which it happily coped with and stayed lovely and sharp.

 

[Wallace]

Is the blade repairable? Mine seem to be coping ok.

 

[Richard.]

Is the blade repairable? Mine seem to be coping ok.

Not by me it's not. I don't have a nice clamping system to sit them in and take the heat away.

 

[Wallace]

Not by me it's not. I don't have a nice clamping system to sit them in and take the heat away.

I did the first ones with a couple of clamps and two pieces of brass plate and you're a far better welder than I!

 

[Richard.]

I'll give it a go and hope for the best. Once annealed do you rapid cool?

 

[Wallace]

No, just get to dull cherry then let it cool, easier to see with the lights down. Once welded, try not to flex the joint until annealed as it's very brittle. Hope it works, I've been using 0.8mm Mig wire as filler.

 

[Richard.]

Cheers for the tip. I'll give it a whirl. If it works I may start buying it like you do in length.

 

[Depaugie]

Are you still thinking of flood cooling?
It came fitted on my saw, but i got fed up of trying to second guess which side of the stock i was cutting the fluid was going to **** down onto the floor.
as you know when it dries out it ends up a sticky mess.
I fitted an airline supply to a regulator/oiler connected to the original coolant pipework.
used a timer from an air tank timed solenoid/condensate valve, cheap on bay.
So I fill the oiler with 'Lennox' cutting fluid cut with water and set to spray every 2/3 secs for a small part of a second.
Because its on a timer and not continuous, there is no mist. (I want to repeat this on my mill & lathe.)
the blade stays cool and no mess on the floor or saw.

 

[Richard.]

I just stand a tub under the drip if I get one.
Nice idea mind.