Clarke CBS45MD 6x4 Metal Cutting Bandsaw Modifications

[Shox Dr]

I tried using coolant, and spray. I found no matter what I did some of the swarf got into the wheel case, caused a lot of problems; I don't use anything now.

I find blade life is heavily dictated by the amount of pressure applied, the weight of the machine is not enough most of the time, and the blade doesn't cut causing it to overheat, leading to blunt blades, and breakages.

So I've a load of off cuts I hang off the arm, to increase the pressure. Seems to work for me I can't remember the last time I changed a blade

 

[Richard.]

Mine is a very old design 6x4 monarc job and the bow is a lot thicker and heavier than the modern 6x4's. Mine never needs a counter weight on it no matter what it's cutting.

 

[Richard.]

No, just get to dull cherry then let it cool, easier to see with the lights down. Once welded, try not to flex the joint until annealed as it's very brittle. Hope it works, I've been using 0.8mm Mig wire as filler.

Do you allow the weld to fully cool before heat treat? Sound like daft questions but looking how well you joined the last one I intend to do it the same way.

 

[Wallace]

Do you allow the weld to fully cool before heat treat? Sound like daft questions but looking how well you joined the last one I intend to do it the same way.

The two brass plates I clamp the blade to sap the heat out in no time so there is a minimal amount of the blade that hardens. Biggest problem I have is making sure there is no undercut on the top edge or teeth. Once annealed I then sand the excess weld and file the back edge of the blade flat and dress any weld on the teeth. I practised different techniques on a blunt blade before trying a good one.

 

[Richard.]

Weld both sides or punch right through. Appreciate the advice.

 

[Wallace]

Punch right through, that was the reason I used the brass plates as the underside needs very little cleaning up afterwards.

 

[Richard.]

Cheers dude. I'll post up my failures and be seeking advice on the way. Thanks again mate.

 

[Wallace]

Are you still thinking of flood cooling?
It came fitted on my saw, but i got fed up of trying to second guess which side of the stock i was cutting the fluid was going to **** down onto the floor.
as you know when it dries out it ends up a sticky mess.
I fitted an airline supply to a regulator/oiler connected to the original coolant pipework.
used a timer from an air tank timed solenoid/condensate valve, cheap on bay.
So I fill the oiler with 'Lennox' cutting fluid cut with water and set to spray every 2/3 secs for a small part of a second.
Because its on a timer and not continuous, there is no mist. (I want to repeat this on my mill & lathe.)
the blade stays cool and no mess on the floor or saw.

Sounds a nice setup. I had an idea to trial a drip feed directly onto each side of the blade similar to the delivery tube used on Scottoiler motorcycle chain lubricators. This may help blade life and help reduce the mess but what I would like is the work to be cool to the touch once cut and my thoughts are there would not be enough flow to do so. Until I get the tray mounted it's all theory at the moment.

 

[Depaugie]

Although I have the intermittent spray which I wouldn't cut stainless without, I have cut dry and not noticed a huge difference in blade wear.
There is a range of band saws on 'Trick Tools' that don't come with coolent.
They can swing the cutting frame left and right 45 degs. If cost wasen't an issue I would have one tomorrow.

 

[Richard.]

All the 6x4's are dry cutting.
I adapted mine to run cutting fluid, best mod I made. Just recently cut lots of box and flat out of stainless and mild and it's as sharp as it day it come out the box. I think it's a combination of all things really. I made a steady feed with an adjustable damper, I use starret bi metal blades and a constant feed of correctly diluted cutting fluid all equate to long lasting teeth. It doesn't help when I try to cut something that's too big for the saw and stupidly stand it vertically and the vibration nips and snaps it.
I'll weld her back up on the quality advice given by Wallace.

 

[Wallace]

Update on the Tig welded blades, finally broke a blade and the joint was not where the break occurred. Closer inspection revealed a number of cracks radiating from the teeth upward, none of which were near the welded joint. The blade was dull, well past its best and should have been changed ages ago but I decided to keep it on there to see how the joint coped and it did well.

I do cut some odd pieces.........

 

[Richard.]

I also welded mine when it snapped quite some time back based on your advise. and she is also holding out through the consistent use. It's a great way of welding them it works really well and that little weld has also been though a lot of material with no signs of breaking. The blade is getting a little dull mind but as it was the first one since the build I can't blame it.

 

[Wallace]

Pleased to hear it's working successfully on other machines.

 

[Richard.]

It is. I think I welded it just before Christmas and not thought about it since. I'll have to get it swapped over at some point mind as those teeth are now snaking off on cuts and very dull too. That's stainless for ya.
I have some tubular frames to cut today and change. I'll use the saw and a brand new blade for the cuts.

 

[DAPPH]

@ Wallace,
You may recall I too have got a new to me Clarke CBS45MD that neds a lot of work & TLC to get it going well .

It was in dire straights when got it , the blade guides were almost rock solid with rusty swarf , for apparently it's been stood in a really wet shed for several years. The vice & positioning bits for it were rock solid .
As I've worked through the machine stripping , cleaning , repairing and replacing things it's started to look like a Clarke CBS45MD Bandsaw again.

None of the safety micro switches were present nor was there any wiring to the area they would be sited that had not been either cut short or badly damaged .

This afternoon I've run new wires in for the blade case cover micro switch and the pulley case cover micro switch taking them back to the control switch box , I've also replaced the mains feed wire and that from the switch to the motor . When plugged , switched on & the start button pressed it in it started but would not latch on , as soon as I take my finger off the green start button the motor stops.

So I have a question to ask you .

Are the two micro switches wired in series along the incoming wire neutral wire then run back into the neutral of the switch input & there a live , direct to the relay input terminal . The motor feed wires .... live & neutral go on to to the pins on the opposite side of the relay switch unit ?

It could be I have done something wrong with the wiring or perhaps it is the switch that is faulty and that's why it got given on to me . I'll be rechecking it out on Thursday or Friday when I get a bit if breathing space .
Any help of a photo or drawings of the relay & the wiring would be most welcome .

Thanks Dave

 

[DAPPH]

No rush any more guys ,
I had a play this afternoon & managed to take the on off no volts relay ( NVR) switch apart with out breaking anything , the contact on the negative side was heavily corroded & despite using a contact file and several sprays of contact cleaner it didn't make any difference .
I finally also put my meter across the latching coil ..it's open circuit .. So new a switch has been ordered from within the UK , plus I'm getting two new long arm 240 volt 10 amp micro switches for the safety circuit wiring as well . Just in case it is all down to induced spikes having been caused by the micro switches operating when the covers or the micro switches them selves have become loose .

 

[Richard.]

No rush any more guys

Pheeeeeew.

 

[Wallace]

Glad you found a solution Dave, I don't fancy delving into the wiring inside my saw as I don't like what I see on the outside and a complete rewire will be needed if I do!

 

[DAPPH]

I got my new NVR switch yesterday afternoon along with three 2.5 " arm 10 amp micro switches courtesy of Royal Mail . So this afternoon Sunday I spent a couple of hours woring in nthe switches ..what a pain , found i barely had enough excess cable to run the blade switch . . Had to undo all the new cable & clamping brackets I've put on the machine and tease the blade cable back from the main on/off switch biock . It's sorted with a bit of play as well . Tip if you re run the cables allow at least 18 inches of free cable hanging out the cable glands at teh back of the machine 7 when you get ready to connect them up lay the cutting arm horizontal to the anvil that way you'll soon see how much you need . Were I to do it again I'd wire both blade 6 belt microswitch in first b , set teh machine to horizontal then take the cables back to the main switch , leaving at least 9 inches of spare cable to make the terminations at teh main switch block .

The replacement switch is about 1.5 mm longer than the original so it was a case of doing a little filing to get the hole big enough to fit .. doing it in a vice would have made it easier than filing whilst the mount was screwed to the saw bed
It was as I suspected ..... I wired both of the safety device micro switches in series into the incoming neutral wire then put it on the incoming neutral terminal of the NVR on/off latching switch & tool the motors neutral out the other side of the switch . Live was run in & out the switch at the appropriate terminal .
Pluggrd the machine into the RCD circuit socket and hey presto ..nothing happened a big fat Zilch . a quick metering of the mains cable showed it OK , live went throught the NVR switch & off to the motors relay . The opnly ting to do was recheck teh microswitches .. & had a full neutral wiring . puzzled i checked each microsewitch again . they both worked as normally open switches so made circuit when they were closed .
Piut the cover door closed and still opencircuit .. thought it couls have ben a slight oversight on my part in setting the actuating point of the switches but I could hear them click whenthe covers were closed & fastened .
That set me a bit of a problem so I cut the joints at teh main on off switch and found that the band switch was OC witht e door closed .
I undid the switch & played with it & my multimeter a few times as it sat in the small vice .. found it was an intermittant fault , sometimes it operated the NO contact to close them some times it didn't . Oh well ...... good job I ordered three micro switches & not two as originally intended .

I also made a protective covering for the micro switches out of a 2 " wide off cut of new unused orange soil pipe ( cut the ring in half , set it in the vice& warmed it up with the gas blow torch then bent it to give 90degree angle drilled & fitted it and slipped a new unused insulated Lucar clip over the unused terminal to prevent a neutral short to earth, for that would trip not only the protected switched socket in the garage but it would also usually trip th whole garage consumer unit as well .

On retest every thing ran well & the machine cut off at the correct point after a small adjustment to the blade arm stop bold set up , to prevent the arms stop bracket smashing down into the the new switch or depressing he button more than it needs to .

Tomorrow I may even be able to get the new blade on , get it all adjusted to cut square and do some real work bits cutting .

 

[Laszlo]

Hi guys,

Does anyone know what is the RPM and wattage of the motor on these?

We had two of these at work at one point. One of them was bought a few years after the first one and the quality of the parts seemed to be much worse. It ended up being stuck in a corner. I wanted to fix it up a bit but never really had the time. At one point during a big clean out our glorious management decided to get rid of it... but I kept the motor. I'm thinking about using it for a belt grinder project. It might not be powerful enough for heavy grinding but it might be good enough for my needs. Now, this is sold as a 370W or 0.5 hp saw but the label on the motor says 500W. Any ideas what's going on?