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brightspark
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why not get a rotary carbide mortar cutter fitted in the angle grinder theres loads to choose from https://www.pipestock.com/masonry-mortar-router-bit
The walls are faced with coursed stones about 20/30cm deep and the space between is 0.6 metre of rubble infill. I was present on a friends job a few years ago when a few of the coursed stones fell followed by a small avalanche of infill. I think once the fierce jet gets behind a coursed stone it removes material from behind very quickly, more quickly than can easily be controlled.
The accepted method with rubble infill walls is to remove enough to provide new support and protection and leave the other two thirds depth well alone, the powdery mortar wont go anywhere once the face is shored up with fresh mortar. The building has stood for nearly 400 years, gravity and powdery mortar are holding it together, the dusty mortar deeper in the wall needs not to be disturbed.
That is a very interesting looking tool, it may be another candidate.
Ive used a air hammer for removing lime mortar in a loose stone wall, it gets labourious and boring to wait for the compressor to catch up unless you have a big compressor sufficient to run it at 100% duty, and there is vibration and its noisy and the air umbilical is a pain. A sds drill is simpler but it still vibrates and is quite heavy after a bit. Some of the wall I took on was done in chaux blanc, and some of it some unkind person had rendered in patches in that old concrete that seems indestructable about 40 years ago so maybe it was that leading to the misery encountered too.
On a more positive note, putting it back in is much more fun, have you tried the mortor injection guns? They have a big screw underneath a large hopper, and you can feed the sand/chaux mix into the hopper, and have at the mortar space with the nozzle and trace all the wiggly lines but at high speed, skirting disaster almost and knowing the chaux is getting right inside. Its like icing a cake with a big electrical cake icer. I bought a cheap chinese one and burnt it out doing my barn wall, but I finished the job to the point I wanted with the stator of the original motor being rotated by a cordless drill instead which meant no cords, and I've kept it setup like this. I know the artisanal way is to throw masses of mix at the wall and just brush the face of the stones as its in the crumbly state, but that didnt sit well with me wanting to get full depth on the chaux infil because the particular wall was really washed out.
On a more positive note, putting it back in is much more fun, have you tried the mortor injection guns? They have a big screw underneath a large hopper, and you can feed the sand/chaux mix into the hopper, and have at the mortar space with the nozzle and trace all the wiggly lines but at high speed, skirting disaster almost and knowing the chaux is getting right inside. Its like icing a cake with a big electrical cake icer. I bought a cheap chinese one and burnt it out doing my barn wall, but I finished the job to the point I wanted with the stator of the original motor being rotated by a cordless drill instead which meant no cords, and I've kept it setup like this. I know the artisanal way is to throw masses of mix at the wall and just brush the face of the stones as its in the crumbly state, but that didnt sit well with me wanting to get full depth on the chaux infil because the particular wall was really washed out.
Mick Annick
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I have a similar wall to do, been putting it off for years…
Yep - my wife has the front of the house lined up for when I retire - it's putting me off retirement
addjunkie
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I tried one of those type things, and a thick diamond disc too….a chipping hammer, sds etc. all work, but none are perfect. Pointing especially in stone is a tedious task, that just needs doing and doing properly! Ive a corner down the side of a chimney that needs doing again since some muppet, me tried to nail / tack cables to.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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As already mentioned the brick saw would be my choice...they work like an electric knife with double blades with carbide teeth inserts. Very controllable if the small blades are used.
Can very easily cut out a single brick from a wall without disturbing the other bricks.
Can very easily cut out a single brick from a wall without disturbing the other bricks.
Since pontificating about trying an air chisel for fit I must have used a chipping hammer for untold hours over several jobs. I hate the things with a vengeance, 230M2 on one job of barely coarsed peasant grade tuffeau with a chipping hammer is no fun.
I think I will buy a Cuturi air hammer, I would like to try before buying but I don't see that happening near here. There are several sizes, the mid size offerings are probably the ones for old lime mortar.
It might seem like small beer if you have rectangular coursed block to rake out and you are 35 years old. Try 64 years old with random rubble courses with stones varying from 10cm to 40cm. Did I mention that I despise chipping hammers? Not for the noise or their absolute crapness in chasing tortuous lines, no, I despise them for the weight, six hours wielding one is more than enough for anyone but the roided up.
I think I will buy a Cuturi air hammer, I would like to try before buying but I don't see that happening near here. There are several sizes, the mid size offerings are probably the ones for old lime mortar.
It might seem like small beer if you have rectangular coursed block to rake out and you are 35 years old. Try 64 years old with random rubble courses with stones varying from 10cm to 40cm. Did I mention that I despise chipping hammers? Not for the noise or their absolute crapness in chasing tortuous lines, no, I despise them for the weight, six hours wielding one is more than enough for anyone but the roided up.
Kayos
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If you are taking lime pointing out, you do not need tools, unless its so bad the wall needs rebuilding
Tools will make the joint bigger and more likely to fail again
Ive seen houses ruined when lime mortar has been hacked out with a grinder or sds chisel, even worse when it is redone with Portland cement and the owner then has damp issues....
Tools will make the joint bigger and more likely to fail again
Ive seen houses ruined when lime mortar has been hacked out with a grinder or sds chisel, even worse when it is redone with Portland cement and the owner then has damp issues....
At various properties I have had to chase out bands or door reveals done in OPC, sometimes we leave it in place if the stonework is too fragile, its a crime to use the stuff, or it should be. You do need tools when you are going at over 350M2 of walls as I did on a place three years ago, just gentle tools.
I took an internal wall down with an SDS, frighteningly efficient at turning cement mortar to dust I wouldn't go anywhere near lime mortar with one.
Used one of these when the missus wanted to change the grout colour on the granite kitchen floor, sane, sensible and hardly any dust with a vac hose taped to the machine.
Used one of these when the missus wanted to change the grout colour on the granite kitchen floor, sane, sensible and hardly any dust with a vac hose taped to the machine.
They aren't stupid enough around here. I tried steering a neighbours son into joining the fun and he rightfully said that I was just making beer money and trying different pursuits for sport. He is now studiously pursuing a none vocational course to work towards heavy vehicle maintenance, he made the right choice.Young lad and give him the raking out percentage of the job...you go and do something more time worthy
I reply a long time later because I only tried a scaler recently. I think for any hard stones, basalts and so on, for sound brick they would be perfect for raking out and to a controlled depth too. The stone hereabouts is chalky limestone, Tuffeau is so soft that with a multitool or swiss champ you could probably carve yourself a well detailed name or inscription in a few minutes, a large hole in an hour.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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If you shape the end of a multi tool blade into a point you can make a very accurate mini pick. That got me out of a few scrapes where there was zero room for a hammer!
gaz1
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if those young people are anything like meYoung lad and give him the raking out percentage of the job...you go and do something more time worthy
boredom will really set in and to be honest the money isnt there for it either
and the customers dont want to pay for it either
This is what i use on both soft and hard material.
With random stone, i use, as suggested earlier, a goved hand (thick welding glove) to manipulate the shape of the needes.
Strap round my neck to ease the weigt on my arm.
We've been using a Trelawny VL303 for removing ~140m2 of cement render and gypsum plaster with acrylic paint that was causing no end of problems as it was put over lime/rubble/rubble infill walls. We've got the needle gun end on for parts that were mainly plaster or thin cement parging over the stone, and the chisel end for removing the thick render in sheets. I think it's a great tool. Far less vibration than a breaker for the same efficacy, and a lot quieter.
The stone here is simply dug straight out of where the barn was built, and is sedimentary, soft shale-like stuff. In the hand, it can be split without tools and almost crumbled when damp. Basically, it's soft. While removing the plaster, the needle gun with 3mm needles does a great job of removing the mortar too. It's lime/earth...original from a couple of hundred years back, ready for repointing with fat lime, while only lightly indenting the surface of the stone. As it's all going to be plastered in haired lime we're not concerned about marking the faces, but I think the same tool would make an excellent mortar rake if the 'choke' (I don't know what to call it) that guided the needles into a straight line were used, or indeed Roger440's idea of a simple gloved hand to direct the needles. We've just got the round guide attached so the needles affect a roughly circular patch.
The stone here is simply dug straight out of where the barn was built, and is sedimentary, soft shale-like stuff. In the hand, it can be split without tools and almost crumbled when damp. Basically, it's soft. While removing the plaster, the needle gun with 3mm needles does a great job of removing the mortar too. It's lime/earth...original from a couple of hundred years back, ready for repointing with fat lime, while only lightly indenting the surface of the stone. As it's all going to be plastered in haired lime we're not concerned about marking the faces, but I think the same tool would make an excellent mortar rake if the 'choke' (I don't know what to call it) that guided the needles into a straight line were used, or indeed Roger440's idea of a simple gloved hand to direct the needles. We've just got the round guide attached so the needles affect a roughly circular patch.
