penfold
Ambassador plenipotentiary
- Messages
- 2,116
- Location
- Argyll and Bute, God's own country.
I'll put the box away now
You're right, but it's hard to take it seriously when I've had about 3" of rain in the last fortnight!
- Thread starter FranV8
- Start date
You're right, but it's hard to take it seriously when I've had about 3" of rain in the last fortnight!
Shox Dr
Chief Engineer to Carlos Fandango
- Messages
- 17,993
- Location
- East Yorkshire
I think it all depends on the head of water
julieanncharters
Member
- Messages
- 210
i run a home made central heating pump cooler and its fine.
welding 200-250amp AC tig on long Aluminum runs with no prob at all.
have a rectangular stainless tank on its end just filled with water and a bit of anti freeze.
no fancy rads or immersed coils ,no need
the central heating pump sits under the bottom of the tank so it has gravity feed and is self bleeding.
flow out the bottom return at the top simples.
welding 200-250amp AC tig on long Aluminum runs with no prob at all.
have a rectangular stainless tank on its end just filled with water and a bit of anti freeze.
no fancy rads or immersed coils ,no need
the central heating pump sits under the bottom of the tank so it has gravity feed and is self bleeding.
flow out the bottom return at the top simples.
Thanks for the replies and points around the pump. I'd seen the other thread where someone posted (albeit with tall tanks) using CH pumps in an industrial set up. I've been on the Grundfos site using their calculators too. Basically I think the success or failure of these pumps is pretty much down to the pump suction conditions. I looked at your set up Shox, I think the problem lay with priming the pump needing to suck the coolant up over the top. The proper Procon pumps probably create quite a significant suction, these centrifugal types won't like pulling on air to start with.
Anyway, some progress on the build, it's taking shape.
Anyway, some progress on the build, it's taking shape.
Sorry that the photos aren't great - using the phone camera...
Some explanations:
First bit of copper pipe soldering I've ever done - wow, so easy!
Note tupperware box as coolant reservoir. I may make one in ally when I get round to it.
Return fitting in position.
And finally shown with the major components in an old stainless water heater cover that will form the case. The extractor fan at the front will blow air into the case, which will exit via the radiator. Need to make up some brackets to mount the pump into the case - may even use wood for that. Side will make in aluminium.
Some explanations:
First bit of copper pipe soldering I've ever done - wow, so easy!
Note tupperware box as coolant reservoir. I may make one in ally when I get round to it.
Return fitting in position.
And finally shown with the major components in an old stainless water heater cover that will form the case. The extractor fan at the front will blow air into the case, which will exit via the radiator. Need to make up some brackets to mount the pump into the case - may even use wood for that. Side will make in aluminium.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
- Messages
- 7,735
- Location
- Teesside, England
Procon pumps don't like being run dry, they're sliding graphite vane designs and the vanes will be in shreds in no time. OK if you site them below a tank so they get wet quickly. I always pour water in and work the vanes around a few times ehen installing just in case - in fact I think Procon's install leaflet advises it.
We use them in x-ray system coolers, sadly we never have any spare coolers that need disposing of...
Interesting one Wedg1e, I think just about every cooler I see using one appears to have it located above a sump type reservoir. I guess once primed normally they remain full of liquid, as most seem to have quick connects on the torch.
Shame you don't get any surplus coolers, sounds like you could do a roaring trade in them!
Shame you don't get any surplus coolers, sounds like you could do a roaring trade in them!
G19Engineering
Member
- Messages
- 10
I recently made my own torch cooler. I do a lot of work with big ally sump castings and have no idea how i managed with out it before.
My kit was made from a Vauxhall Omega coolant circulation run on pump and a plastic boat fuel tank. The pump is 12 v so runs off a car battery that is permantly hooked up to my trickle charger. It is wired with an inline fuse and a switch at the back of my work bench.
I have not bothered with a cooler. The energy required to raise the temp of 30 litres of water by even a degree or two is pretty huge so you will never have a problem.
I can run my 250 amp TIG flat out on some long runs and cant really feel a difference in water temp afterwards. Torch stays so cool you cant tell it has been used.
I had the tank (although you can buy on ebay for £30), had the pump and spent £17 on fittings and hoses. Cant see why anyone would buy a £350 ish cooler.
My kit was made from a Vauxhall Omega coolant circulation run on pump and a plastic boat fuel tank. The pump is 12 v so runs off a car battery that is permantly hooked up to my trickle charger. It is wired with an inline fuse and a switch at the back of my work bench.
I have not bothered with a cooler. The energy required to raise the temp of 30 litres of water by even a degree or two is pretty huge so you will never have a problem.
I can run my 250 amp TIG flat out on some long runs and cant really feel a difference in water temp afterwards. Torch stays so cool you cant tell it has been used.
I had the tank (although you can buy on ebay for £30), had the pump and spent £17 on fittings and hoses. Cant see why anyone would buy a £350 ish cooler.
Wedg1e
They call me Mr. Bodge-angles
- Messages
- 7,735
- Location
- Teesside, England
I did get one once: it had lain around for years but wouldn't fit on any of our trolley-mounted x-ray sets so we couldn't use it. The boss said throw it out so I did - into my van
It was a BOC welding cooler, long and narrow, unlike the square or round x-ray ones. I Ebayed it for £60 and offered to deliver it (to a farm out by Bradford; Nursy lived at Leeds at the time so I was down there anyway AND on company diesel)... when I got there the guy stuffed my hand with £90 and treated me like royalty!
Not too many months later I bought a TIG set...
I've been busy-ish
Well, I haven't got on with this as quickly as I'd like to, but I've been through some progress on the build and also testing it out.
I got it all connected up hydraulically, thought, as it's in an unheated garage, I'd ought test it with antifreeze. Only stuff I had was some of that modern pink stuff that I swore I'd never use in a car engine again (don't mix it if there is any old antifreeze in your engine - the two form a new material called engineering yoghurt) - first just bunged it in neat as a test, flow was not great but it's pretty viscous stuff unmixed. So now it's mixed with water.
I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to bleed air out of the circuit, particularly at the high points where the connections go into the case. I get a flow that's probably okay for what I'll use it for. When bleeding I tried blocking off the return line, it built an impressive amount of pressure when dead headed.
I've still got to wire in the fan, and make a side panel up (including burning some holes for the front panel switch and gland for the gas hose to exit)
Relatively pleased with how it's looking. I thought I'd put some finishing touches with some rubber feet and the handle for carrying it. I wonder if I should have put some provision for storage of the torch when not in use, but it'll go on the welding trolley I paused manufacture of when I started this.
Oh - the hose connections - I spent far too much time thinking about how to make them panel mounted. I struggled to find anywhere selling bulkehead style fittings, so ended up making a couple of aluminium plates to hold the male to male unions. Took a lot of thinking (perhaps I'm stupid) to come up with a method that works without coming up with billet clamping arrangements that were too involved.
Well, I haven't got on with this as quickly as I'd like to, but I've been through some progress on the build and also testing it out.
I got it all connected up hydraulically, thought, as it's in an unheated garage, I'd ought test it with antifreeze. Only stuff I had was some of that modern pink stuff that I swore I'd never use in a car engine again (don't mix it if there is any old antifreeze in your engine - the two form a new material called engineering yoghurt) - first just bunged it in neat as a test, flow was not great but it's pretty viscous stuff unmixed. So now it's mixed with water.
I had to do a fair bit of fiddling to bleed air out of the circuit, particularly at the high points where the connections go into the case. I get a flow that's probably okay for what I'll use it for. When bleeding I tried blocking off the return line, it built an impressive amount of pressure when dead headed.
I've still got to wire in the fan, and make a side panel up (including burning some holes for the front panel switch and gland for the gas hose to exit)
Relatively pleased with how it's looking. I thought I'd put some finishing touches with some rubber feet and the handle for carrying it. I wonder if I should have put some provision for storage of the torch when not in use, but it'll go on the welding trolley I paused manufacture of when I started this.
Oh - the hose connections - I spent far too much time thinking about how to make them panel mounted. I struggled to find anywhere selling bulkehead style fittings, so ended up making a couple of aluminium plates to hold the male to male unions. Took a lot of thinking (perhaps I'm stupid) to come up with a method that works without coming up with billet clamping arrangements that were too involved.
Paul G
Member
- Messages
- 932
quote from post 1:-
"Well, I blame Paul G for me starting off down this track. After picking up the bandsaw he sold me,
he showed me his water cooled torch (WP20), which changed my wantalitis from a WP9F to supplement
my WP26 (bit bulky and with a relatively heavy and inflexible cable), to want to go the water cooled route."
Hi Fran
I am soooo glad you have seen the light.
Nice to see the saw is getting some use as well.
Your cooler looks good.
Cheers,
Paul G
"Well, I blame Paul G for me starting off down this track. After picking up the bandsaw he sold me,
he showed me his water cooled torch (WP20), which changed my wantalitis from a WP9F to supplement
my WP26 (bit bulky and with a relatively heavy and inflexible cable), to want to go the water cooled route."
Hi Fran
I am soooo glad you have seen the light.
Nice to see the saw is getting some use as well.
Your cooler looks good.
Cheers,
Paul G
Wallace
Member
- Messages
- 7,705
- Location
- Staines, Middlesex, England.
An alternative pump source.......
Having recently used a WP20 torch on an ESAB Tig set for a small production run at a company I contract for I too decided a WP9 would be a nice addition to my WP26 for smaller jobs so I spent some time looking into the cost. The old saying "Everything comes to he who waits" worked nicely for me as I was invited back to do a couple more days production welding and the pump on their water cooler packed up so I had to rummage round for any spares to see if I could repair it. In the rummage I found two used but servicable WP9 & WP20 torches that were surplus to requirements and a nice little Jacobs pump with motor too!
In order to finish the job I set up the WP20 torch on the ESAB Tig with two buckets and tried gravity feeding the torch. This worked surprisingly well around 100 Amps and kept the torch nice and cool to continue the job. It was easy to tell when the bucket was empty as the torch started to get hot pretty quickly!
The search for a new ESAB cooler pump came with some hideous quotes just for a pump to a replacement cooler at £1200 and using the pump details via Google showed it to be used mainly in enema pumps!
Having recently used a WP20 torch on an ESAB Tig set for a small production run at a company I contract for I too decided a WP9 would be a nice addition to my WP26 for smaller jobs so I spent some time looking into the cost. The old saying "Everything comes to he who waits" worked nicely for me as I was invited back to do a couple more days production welding and the pump on their water cooler packed up so I had to rummage round for any spares to see if I could repair it. In the rummage I found two used but servicable WP9 & WP20 torches that were surplus to requirements and a nice little Jacobs pump with motor too!
In order to finish the job I set up the WP20 torch on the ESAB Tig with two buckets and tried gravity feeding the torch. This worked surprisingly well around 100 Amps and kept the torch nice and cool to continue the job. It was easy to tell when the bucket was empty as the torch started to get hot pretty quickly!
The search for a new ESAB cooler pump came with some hideous quotes just for a pump to a replacement cooler at £1200 and using the pump details via Google showed it to be used mainly in enema pumps!
