Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I wasn't paying attention and got stung for £2.10 a litre at Watford gap services today for the normal diesel - doh!

Only ever put a tenner in at services like that. Just enough to get me so where more sensible.

 

[pressbrake1]

Those who bought EVs 5 years ago are likely to get the same money they spent on them back today due to the changing marketplace. As they were buying them the naysayers were busy telling them they'd need a new battery pack soon, massive depreciation etc. In the meantime, those purchasers benefited from lots of free charging (most of which is now gone), no road tax and low servicing costs over the 5 years and have a cost per mile far lower than the cheapest bangeromics expert can manage.... those days are gone, we're all going to be paying more for our personal transport now. The big push to public transport has started, young folk up to 21 and those over 60 get free bus travel in Scotland now. Driving lessons and tests are very hard to get here as well, long lead times for both.

I’ve been offered a £5k profit on mine , obviously helped by me kicking the divorce bankrupt vendor in the nuts

 

[brewdexta]

By the time I had realised it was too late, nearly empty tank too. I was being hassled by both work and the missus by phone. Double doh!

 

[GRW]

As in I will never own a “Milk Float”?
Another pointless moaning thread imho. If you don’t like EVs, don’t buy one. Simple as that.
It’s all very well saying Ooh… the grid won’t be able to cope etc. but there’s no evidence of that yet. Remember the Y2K bug that was going to destroy the world? Yeah…. it was disastrous wasn’t it?…..
My commute is <6 miles each way, perfectly suited to an EV, but my little 1.2 turbo triple Pug 308 has to do as money doesn’t permit….,, at the moment.

It's not moaning (congrats on the cheap shot btw - and full marks for coming across as a ****). It's discussion, debate - and making the very clear point (to those who clearly have the spare cash and circumstances where the distinct limitations of the EV don't affect them) - that for millions of us the EV is far too expensive and has far too many limitations over a far less capital outlay ICE, which comes without the EV issues.

If my daily mileage was just 6-miles each way for work then I'd cycle it (in summer at least) and be the cheapest of all - but it's not.

 

[daleyd]

Perhaps. But I have said that EV's "window" where they make sense - is as the urban (inc suburb to city) commute - esp. so with the artifical boost that things like the ULEZ & its clones give to their appeal & viability.

I (and a great many others who are heavily reliant on personal transport for the same reasons) - live in a rural area, where journey distances for work and essentials are far greater, and where the infrastructure is more dispersed. It's also where alternative transport us either poor, sporadic, irregular to the point of being useless for commuting - or non-existent. Earnings are generally lower, travelling need (& costs) higher.
For a lot of us, the EV is neither affordable, nor suitable / fit for purpose, nor has anything like the charging points etc etc.

The "problem" (of the above being largely disregarded) seems to be that city dwellers are far less pro-car, indeed due to the negative impact of congestion etc many are "anti-car".... and of course our "Leaders" are based where? The city.

The problems of the rural dweller & the necessity of the ICE vehicle - receive little consideration or empathy - those who make the decisions for the Nation either do not know, do not comprehend, or do not care that entire rural communities depend upon affordable personal transportation.

We live about as far from a city as you could get

Ironically it would have made more sense (bigger savings) the further my missus had to commute so I’m really not sure that adds up - her old job was 35 miles away so a 70 mile commute each day at ~16p per mile (roughly her old car fuel cost) would have cost £56 a week (ish) in diesel, if she was still doing that commute now at 2.5 p per mile it would cost around £9 a week in electric.

Of course if your comparing a new car (any new car) against a 10 year old car then the economics will be different - however the fact that there are almost no 10 year old EV around in any numbers mean making those comparisons are simply meaningless.

 

[pressbrake1]

We live about as far from a city as you could get

Ironically it would have made more sense (bigger savings) the further my missus had to commute so I’m really not sure that adds up - her old job was 35 miles away so a 70 mile commute each day at ~16p per mile (roughly her old car fuel cost) would have cost £56 a week (ish) in diesel, if she was still doing that commute now at 2.5 p per mile it would cost around £9 a week in electric.

Of course if your comparing a new car (any new car) against a 10 year old car then the economics will be different - however the fact that there are almost no 10 year old EV around in any numbers mean making those comparisons are simply meaningless.

He spoke of remote fuel stations.
During the fuel madness it was excellent to be fuel self sufficient and not be held to ransom

 

[Fastdruid]

Ours is, it works out at around 2.5p/mile (ok, it’s more like 9p if we have to charge in the day - which we never have…) - can you get that from an ICE

Well, it's only 2.5p/mi if you ignore the purchase price.

When you take everything else into account unless you're doing lots and lots of miles or saving a fortune due to BIK its not so cheap. Payback time for the cheapest, cheapest second hand EV for me in terms of saving on fuel would be about 12 years even if electricity was free and I'd still need another ICE car!

 

[GRW]

We live about as far from a city as you could get

Ironically it would have made more sense (bigger savings) the further my missus had to commute so I’m really not sure that adds up - her old job was 35 miles away so a 70 mile commute each day at ~16p per mile (roughly her old car fuel cost) would have cost £56 a week (ish) in diesel, if she was still doing that commute now at 2.5 p per mile it would cost around £9 a week in electric.

Of course if your comparing a new car (any new car) against a 10 year old car then the economics will be different - however the fact that there are almost no 10 year old EV around in any numbers mean making those comparisons are simply meaningless.

Not meaningless if you're looking at overall cost. If you spent (say) 35k on an EV (financed or otherwise) then you have to factor that outlay into the equation. You can't just say "it costs me 2.5p/Mike to travel in my EV" - because of the huge initial spend.
Let's say instead you bought a cheap small ICE for 10k instead. You can spend 25K on fuel, servicing, tyres - everything you need to travel - before you start spending 1 penny over the purchase cost of the EV!
You cannot just ignore that as irrelevant.
(I believe the "Hybrid" Prius has been out longer than 10-years, so there must now be a few all-electrics out there now past their first MoT and more... and on the market, surely?)
FWIW - I cannot see buyers willing to pay much for older EV's - the cost of battery packs and motors in the event of a breakdown will scare punters off. I think anyway the Car Market is being manipulated to drive the concept of used car ownership into extinction, thereby creating a sustainable market for the Mfrs new products in perpetuity. The adoption of expensive EV's will hasten that process (see above) and ensure much more expensive motoring for Joe Public, much more money for Car Mfrs, and much more Tax Revenue for the Govt (and probably a reduction in the number of vehicles, thereby reducing the cost of maintaining & expanding road networks etc.
The net loser (as usual) will be the least well-off, and living in lower income rural areas.

 

[daleyd]

Well, it's only 2.5p/mi if you ignore the purchase price.

When you take everything else into account unless you're doing lots and lots of miles or saving a fortune due to BIK its not so cheap. Payback time for the cheapest, cheapest second hand EV for me in terms of saving on fuel would be about 12 years even if electricity was free and I'd still need another ICE car!

Sigh…yes I am aware of that.

As I said if your comparing a 10 year old car to a any new car then the maths will be different, the figures I used above were purely in terms of fuel (pence per mile). For us the cost of the car was going to be similar if we got an ICE or an EV.

 

[mtt.tr]

For clarity I live in the sticks and travel 1000miles a week.


If my Mrs's BMW wasn't In good nick she would have an EV for her commute

 

[brewdexta]

We are on our third EV over about 4 to 5 years.

So that's more EVs into the second hand pool.

Each time we get one we get the same or better model for less money so they are coming down in price. Not in numbers yet, but it will come, probably by the time they tax car charging...

 

[daleyd]

Not meaningless if you're looking at overall cost. If you spent (say) 35k on an EV (financed or otherwise) then you have to factor that outlay into the equation. You can't just say "it costs me 2.5p/Mike to travel in my EV" - because of the huge initial spend.
Let's say instead you bought a cheap small ICE for 10k instead. You can spend 25K on fuel, servicing, tyres - everything you need to travel - before you start spending 1 penny over the purchase cost of the EV!
You cannot just ignore that as irrelevant.
(I believe the "Hybrid" Prius has been out longer than 10-years, so there must now be a few all-electrics out there now past their first MoT and more... and on the market, surely?)
FWIW - I cannot see buyers willing to pay much for older EV's - the cost of battery packs and motors in the event of a breakdown will scare punters off. I think anyway the Car Market is being manipulated to drive the concept of used car ownership into extinction, thereby creating a sustainable market for the Mfrs new products in perpetuity. The adoption of expensive EV's will hasten that process (see above) and ensure much more expensive motoring for Joe Public, much more money for Car Mfrs, and much more Tax Revenue for the Govt (and probably a reduction in the number of vehicles, thereby reducing the cost of maintaining & expanding road networks etc.
The net loser (as usual) will be the least well-off, and living in lower income rural areas.

Again, the equivalent ICE car we were looking at was roughly the same price as the EV we bought. So we would have spent the same amount (give or take a bit)

I am no maths genius but I am well aware that if I spent £15k less then I would have to recoup that before I was “in pocket”. I mean I could probably have a horse for nothing and only feed it grass from the side of the road - that £10k car starts to look expensive then….

 

[GRW]

He spoke of remote fuel stations.
During the fuel madness it was excellent to be fuel self sufficient and not be held to ransom

That must indeed be very nice! If you bought it yourself though - you'd still need to factor in the cist if the PV Array, its installation, maintenance and the Inverters etc. though?

If you just provided the roof space with no outlay, then you're quids-in - but you need to be able to charge the vehicle during the day in order to make use of the Energy produced by the Solar Array yes? That'll not work for anyone who goes out to work during typical working hours.

 

[Wozzaaah]

and full marks for coming across as a ****)

Ha, I’d say that makes two of us then.

 

[mtt.tr]

That must indeed be very nice! If you bought it yourself though - you'd still need to factor in the cist if the PV Array, its installation, maintenance and the Inverters etc. though?

If you just provided the roof space with no outlay, then you're quids-in - but you need to be able to charge the vehicle during the day in order to make use of the Energy produced by the Solar Array yes? That'll not work for anyone who goes out to work during typical working hours.

No you charge betteries during the day

 

[mtt.tr]

Ha, I’d say that makes two of us then.

Touche

 

[GRW]

No you charge betteries during the day

Isn't that only if you've invested the extra however much first - into a battery store?
That's a relatively recent thing in the PV/Solar installation - one hell of a lot if PV systems won't have that storage - it gets used as its produced, or it goes into the grid, yes?

 

[brewdexta]

That must indeed be very nice! If you bought it yourself though - you'd still need to factor in the cist if the PV Array, its installation, maintenance and the Inverters etc. though?

If you just provided the roof space with no outlay, then you're quids-in - but you need to be able to charge the vehicle during the day in order to make use of the Energy produced by the Solar Array yes? That'll not work for anyone who goes out to work during typical working hours.

I'm going to add a bit of battery capacity to our PV so in theory we could charge the EV during the night. Crap efficiency but if its "free energy, then it doesn't matter. But were fortunate in that the missus doesn't work every day so will rarely do that. The battery on the PV will be just to cover a couple of hours home entertainment in the evening before bed.

 

[pressbrake1]

That must indeed be very nice! If you bought it yourself though - you'd still need to factor in the cist if the PV Array, its installation, maintenance and the Inverters etc. though?

If you just provided the roof space with no outlay, then you're quids-in - but you need to be able to charge the vehicle during the day in order to make use of the Energy produced by the Solar Array yes? That'll not work for anyone who goes out to work during typical working hours.

No two forklift batteries charge during day and west facing array for when mrs gets in at 15:00 and gets direct solar charge for few hours
Even with no solar the pleasure of being exempt from the fuel madness and not loosing income and being able to function was priceless

 

[mtt.tr]

Isn't that only if you've invested the extra however much first - into a battery store?
That's a relatively recent thing in the PV/Solar installation - one hell of a lot if PV systems won't have that storage - it gets used as its produced, or it goes into the grid, yes?

Yeah but this a forum of nerds. Not actually that expensive to do if you can do it yourself.