Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[premmington]

Until the grid and generating supplies are sorted out I think the hybrids make most sense, clean air for the inner cities and a sensible solution for motorway,towing or commercial use. It’s blatantly obvious the world is not ready for the ev and it probably won’t be for many years to come. The world shares the air we breathe and impact on climate, being the size we we are we shouldn’t be beating ourselves up over climate issues.

Bob

1. I would agree with your comment about "Hybrids". We are not ready for full EV's yet.

2. The UK only emits 1% of the planets CO2.

3. Bankrupting the country to meet "net zero" does not seem a very good idea to me!

I have sort of embraced the idea of using less and recycling!

 

[Bullet2012]

I have sort of embraced the idea of using less

I cannot afford to use more

 

[premmington]

I cannot afford to use more

Maybe increasing the price of everything (energy and roadfuel included).

Is the true "green revolution"...?

It would be a strategy that would work! Well it would work for some! The rich can afford it and the poor can't (the bulk of society)!

 

[reb78]

I cannot afford to use more

Is that because of the car in your avatar though? I cant talk.... and I am similar. Feb 2022 was not the right time to buy a second hand Range Rover... doh!!

 

[Bullet2012]

Is that because of the car in your avatar though?

What that little thing , unfortunately that one is not mine. It is very good with fuel though has been known to achieve high 9 mpg

 

[My Old Landy]

Give me a shout when it’s done and I’ll watch you off road through a river (obviously a bloody long distance away!!)

✂️ Going through water

15 seconds · Clipped by My Old Landy · Original video "Tesla powered Land Rover off-road adventure" by Electric Classic Cars

youtube.com

This clip shows it is no problem.

 

[reb78]

What that little thing , unfortunately that one is not mine. It is very good with fuel though has been known to achieve high 9 mpg

Haha.

I hired an F150 in the US for a week a few years ago. I got 29 mpg (imperial) out of it. It must have been the V6 I guess but i was impressed. That's better than most of my land rovers!

 

[Morrisman]

Sea freight is the most efficient form of transport known to man. 1 container ship replaces about 8000 lorries.
Air freight definitely isn't.

That's good, it means the 6million++ tons of 'wood pellets' shipped across the Atlantic every year to be burned in power stations here aren't really as bad as we once thought.

 

[fizzy]

That's good, it means the 6million++ tons of 'wood pellets' shipped across the Atlantic every year to be burned in power stations here aren't really as bad as we once thought.

Don't even go there
But of course it is good for the planet

 

[Morrisman]

Don't even go there
But of course it is good for the planet

They hide behind the 'but it's renewable' sham, but so is coal, and oil, if we waited long enough.

 

[stuvy]

You other argument about shipping needless crap around the World I totally agree with. However I am sure both of us are equally guilty of buying such crap

As stated many a time I won’t order Chinese tat for work or home.
Buy cheap, buy twice

Vinyl most definitely coming back. So smooth. Why turn something into digital when it was originally analogue? A good turntable beats any cd player!

Vinyl was swapped out prematurely due to oil crisis in the early 70’s hence yank motors got bigger and had smaller(compared to the big block) engines

 

[frank horton]

the longer this subject goes on and the cost of elec now and in the future ....
for me going off grid seems a better bet...and getting closer .... community / rates tax here is also determind at how much elec u use.....even she is getting interested.....
glad we dont have air-con.....temp today 36c......
just found a reasonably priced 3phase inverter /batt charger....just need to sort batteries and panels.....then were up and running....

there are quite a few domestic properties here now fully of grid.....

only about 5 days per year do we pay to heat water.....it's a 4 bed 4 bath, house......

all the pxicks have to do is to make any solar system VAT free and easy to connect up to the grid would help save the planet a bit.....
course the idiots at the top wont get their works jollies so easily....

 

[stuvy]

I for one couldn’t afford a new car. I also would never waste money on a depreciating asset

 

[merryman]

Remember the record player? Your favourite music played at home any time any volume, then came the tape player……… same as above
Then came the CD player and we bought all the same music again at another premium…..
Then the MP3 player came so let’s all change to that as that became another fashion thing obviously for your same favourite music …..
So how many formats do we go through to travel a mile or two?

With regard to the differing ways music has been recorded over the years and the differing ways cars have been powered. It does seem that the battery electric idea is flawed, and never going to be the solution. Even if very rapid charging batteries were possible, they would require very large power supplies to work them.

There is a technology that would offer a solution at the moment, but nobody seems to be providing it. A combined small battery and hydrogen. Say 100 mile range battery and a 200 mile hydrogen tank. Charge up from the mains overnight for short journeys and top up on hydrogen for longer ones, once hydrogen filling stations become universal, range anxiety goes away. People who do big mileages would have to use the more expensive hydrogen option most of the time, as would those without access to a power point at home. Filling stations are much better suited to hydrogen pumps than rows of high power chargers, which seems to be current thinking for their future.

If I am right, another set of new infrastructure will be needed and many of the public electric charging points now being installed, will be as obsolete as the cassette tape.

 

[piman]

Hello Mtttr,

there are omissions and mistaken assumptions in that 'official' 'myth busting' article.

Yes the maximum demand was higher in the past, we have lost a lot of heavy industry to our detriment. However many of the power stations that used to supply the 60 odd Gigawtts have also gone, the grid is not just cables it needs input to supply demand. On paper we have alot of generating capacity but so much is renewable which quite often produces near to nothing. On that theme many evs will be charged at night, no solar to contribute, not that it does much anyway.
There is no point in having a grid that can cope if the local area disribution network is not capable of supplying all the extra and long duration load of evs and heat pumps. The area network depends on diversity, i.e. not everyone switches on at the same time, long duration loads will cause severe problems in many areas.
The biggest and least appreciated point about the grid is how it works. There are renewable and nuclear generators that supply as much power as they have avaiable and cannot increase should it be required. The type of power that does the balancing, i.e. ensuring that what goes in matches what goes out is gas. Coal, hydro and biomass can do this but generally it is gas. Increase demand and CO2 emissions rise, and vice versa. The very large increase in evs and heat pumps will add to demand so CO2 will rise directly proportional to all this extra load. In other words, evs and heat pumps are powered by gas.
Building more nuclear and renewables will offset this but nuclear capacity is declining in the short term and renewables are very slow to build as their output is nowhere near what the nameplate capcity is. On shore wind is about 25%, offshore wind about 40 to 50% and solar is worst of all at just over 10%.

Just because it comes from an official body doesn't mean there isn't a lot of misinformation.
The National Grid ESO's latest report outlining U.K. future power system is full of errors and wishful thinking.

Alec

 

[GRW]

What brand specific charge points are there other than Tesla? I know Tesla has opened up some of their chargers to all vehicles

Tbh - I haven't a clue - but I know that (just like the mobile phone network) that Brand-Specific Charge Points are permitted and fo exist (you provided the best example - Tesla).
Which - is plain dumb for a Govt to countenance, and is Capitalism at the expense of accessibility and of course Resources - we don't need car charging to be like a worse version of Apple with its specific charge cable.

The reason I haven't found out more re chargers - is because I have already worked out that the sheer cost and actual practicality of an EV makes them an absolute waste of time for what need and can afford.

 

[Fastdruid]

There is a technology that would offer a solution at the moment, but nobody seems to be providing it. A combined small battery and hydrogen. Say 100 mile range battery and a 200 mile hydrogen tank. Charge up from the mains overnight for short journeys and top up on hydrogen for longer ones, once hydrogen filling stations become universal, range anxiety goes away. People who do big mileages would have to use the more expensive hydrogen option most of the time, as would those without access to a power point at home. Filling stations are much better suited to hydrogen pumps than rows of high power chargers, which seems to be current thinking for their future.

Power density for Hydrogen is abysmal and you have to "make" the Hydrogen and store it. That's a problem both for vehicles *and* Infrastructure (of which there is very little to actually fill up at these days).

Particularly problematic is storing enough hydrogen for acceptable range, liquid hydrogen has a density of 8 MJ/L whereas gasoline has a density of 32 MJ/L so to get the same range you need 4x the tank size and unlike petrol or diesel those aren't simple unstressed tanks but expensive composite pressure vessels that need to both contain the Hydrogen and be safe in a collision.

There are Hydrogen cars out there, for example the Toyota Mirai. But that fantastically expensive for what is a mediocre vehicle. It costs half as much as a diesel to run but costs twice as much to buy...that £25k or so buys a *LOT* of diesel or petrol even at the current rates. Back of an envelope calculation calls it break even at about 100k with fuel at £1.80/l.

Plus pretty much all the Mirai is occupied with the H2 tanks and so it's small and cramped vs a similar "D" segment ICE car.... that again would have twice the range and cost half as much!

 

[pressbrake1]

Tbh - I haven't a clue - but I know that (just like the mobile phone network) that Brand-Specific Charge Points are permitted and fo exist (you provided the best example - Tesla).
Which - is plain dumb for a Govt to countenance, and is Capitalism at the expense of accessibility and of course Resources - we don't need car charging to be like a worse version of Apple with its specific charge cable.

The reason I haven't found out more re chargers - is because I have already worked out that the sheer cost and actual practicality of an EV makes them an absolute waste of time for what need and can afford.

I’ve got a ev, it was my only chance of surviving these fuel costs.
It’s low range but 100miles a day commute is in its range and I charge at home with solar.
I’ve got a old diesel on SORN just Incase I need to go anywhere further afield as I’m never going to be able to afford a long range vehicle
I’ve only come across one manufacturer specific charge point and that’s Tesla and that’s part of their attraction. There’s a few different suppliers but not manufacturer dependent like pod point

You call ev’s milk floats. They’re faster , more comfortable and more reliable than (German) ice cars.

Being in machine tool repair I’m much happier with inverters and high power motive units than a scabby old derv with expensive unreliable injectors and the engines life dependant upon a rubber band driving the cam!

 

[GRW]

You call ev’s milk floats. They’re faster , more comfortable and more reliable than (German) ice cars.

Being in machine tool repair I’m much happier with inverters and high power motive units than a scabby old derv with expensive unreliable injectors and the engines life dependant upon a rubber band driving the cam!

1. But not if you want to go far AND fast. The range of an EV plummets if you use your right foot with any weight behind it.
Plus, to get a FAST Milk Float, you need to spend big. Very big.

2. I can see in your case that the workings and mtce/repair might suit... but it'll be opposite for the vast majority.

 

[pressbrake1]

1. But not if you want to go far AND fast. The range of an EV plummets if you use your right foot with any weight behind it.
Plus, to get a FAST Milk Float, you need to spend big. Very big.

2. I can see in your case that the workings and mtce/repair might suit... but it'll be opposite for the vast majority.

I’m just curious to your experience in driving and day to day life with one