Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Tax the profitability out of exploiting the planet.

The figure that keeps getting quoted is based on 1 thing only. Sulphur dioxide emissions. All cars run on ultra low sulphur fuel. When you look at CO2 emissions ships are far lower per kg than anything else.
It would be like saying one Spitfire puts out more lead from its petrol than all the cars in Britain.

So what your saying is reducing global shipping wouldn't help?

 

[fizzy]

Nope. I really can't be arsed mate.

Something like the total output of Germany or some such

Seem to recall those huge container ships put out the same as 50 mil cars?

Fact check me by all means. It's been a long few weeks.

You other argument about shipping needless crap around the World I totally agree with. However I am sure both of us are equally guilty of buying such crap

 

[Richiew]

I work to give myself a better standard of living. If all the "nice" things are regulated out of existence due to environmental concerns then I'll be working two days a week.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

You other argument about shipping needless crap around the World I totally agree with. However I am sure both of us are equally guilty of buying such crap

Hard to avoid it isn't it.

Though looking around my house. Very little of its contents was bought new.

 

[MetalMonkey]

It is worth noting that the National Grid and the DNO are two very different entities.

You could have all the energy in the world available on the grid but it isn't going to get it in to homes and businesses without an investment in local infrastructure.
I suspect local distribution is going to prove more awkward and time consuming to upgrade than high voltage transmission.

The problem is that there seems to be little joined up or practical thinking applied to any of these projects.

I notice there was much noise being made about "gravity batteries" recently, massively over complicated cranes and concrete blocks to store energy - seems nobody has heard of pumped storage.
A lot of these initiatives appear more about making "innovative" investor attracting sexy new technological solutions that don't really work, rather than applying well established principles that could be adapted.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I work to give myself a better standard of living. If all the "nice" things are regulated out of existence due to environmental concerns then I'll be working two days a week.

Your being silly now aren't you.

 

[Richiew]

Your being silly now aren't you.

You're the one banning holidays.

Try getting that past the female population of the UK.

 

[Maker]

I notice there was much noise being made about "gravity batteries" recently, massively over complicated cranes and concrete blocks to store energy - seems nobody has heard of pumped storage.

That one really wound me up, it's pumped storage but worse in every single way. A bit like Elon's Tesla Tunnel ********, literally just tube trains but worse in every single way.

 

[daleyd]

It is worth noting that the National Grid and the DNO are two very different entities.

You could have all the energy in the world available on the grid but it isn't going to get it in to homes and businesses without an investment in local infrastructure.
I suspect local distribution is going to prove more awkward and time consuming to upgrade than high voltage transmission.

The problem is that there seems to be little joined up or practical thinking applied to any of these projects.

I notice there was much noise being made about "gravity batteries" recently, massively over complicated cranes and concrete blocks to store energy - seems nobody has heard of pumped storage.
A lot of these initiatives appear more about making "innovative" investor attracting sexy new technological solutions that don't really work, rather than applying well established principles that could be adapted.

I’m sure everyone knows of pumped storage - the problem is there’s very few places suitable to site it - hence it’s confined to a few mountains in Wales and Scotland! Very easy to say, but quite tricky to implement it.

I’m not saying what you mentioned was better, just that pumped storage is actually quite difficult to do.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

You're the one banning holidays.

Try getting that past the female population of the UK.

How many in this country as a % go on holiday and experience a country and its culture?

And how many go to sit in the sun all day and get s#@t faced all night.

I'd love a 2 day week.

I've worked hard over the last few years to be able to reduce my working days and hours to have more time with my family.

I know they would prefer a week at home with a few outings to the steam railway and zoo that a week I. Spain and so would I

 

[Richiew]

I'd rather spend the holiday money on a bigger lathe but I hear that divorce is expensive.

We've just come back from Italy, looking at Roman viaducts , climbing medieval towers etc. The whole culture thing is a bit of a tourist bubble so it's not really genuine or wholly representative of the locality.

I don't blame people who sit by a pool for two weeks though. Each to their own.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I'd rather spend the holiday money on a bigger lathe but I hear that divorce is expensive.

We've just come back from Italy, looking at Roman viaducts , climbing medieval towers etc. The whole culture thing is a bit of a tourist bubble so it's not really genuine or wholly representative of the locality.

I don't blame people who sit by a pool for two week

And therein is the crux of the matter.
Nobody wants to change.

My family's personal millage is extremely low. Well Under 5k a year.
An ev would work if I hired a car for the two trips to Devon to stay with family. Could you imagine waiting in a services for a recharge with three tired angry kids.

My business millage is probably 5x that but I never work further than 45 miles max from home plus traveling through the day.. I could possibly get away with an electric van. Though it wouldn't be far off 100k for the size and range van I need.

That's an obscene amount of money.


For someone who has never bought or owned a vehicle newer than 10 years old the thought of dropping 35k on an ev car is baffling. Let alone 100k on a van.

 

[Dave-sparks]

I suspect local distribution is going to prove more awkward and time consuming to upgrade than high voltage transmission.

Yes, very much so, the national grid have been going through a process of rewiring a lot of overhead high voltage circuits over the last few years, which can be done with little disruption to the grid due to the redundancy built in to the system.

Local LV distribution networks however are a complete and utter mess, some places are still using the old local DC distribution cables which got re-purposed when the CEGB was set up and the national grid created etc.
Replacing and upgrading the networks sensibly would require entire new infrastructure to be installed in many villages/towns/cities.
Plus of course they will have to do the whole lot whilst maintaining the existing systems as nobody is going to accept having their supply turned off for a few months while the work is being done.

 

[Dave-sparks]

Sea freight is the most efficient form of transport known to man. 1 container ship replaces about 8000 lorries.
Air freight definitely isn't.

It may well be the most efficient form of transport, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement.

 

[Richiew]

And therein is the crux of the matter.
Nobody wants to change.

Since covid I no longer commute. Saves 20 miles per day. Works for me and my employer. My mileage is similar to yours.
Never bought a car with fewer than three previous owners. House is 92 years old, I buy a lot of second hand clothes out of choice not necessity. No kids. I lead a pretty green life in a lot of ways. I would like to keep the meat, dairy and a central heating system that works though.

 

[MetalMonkey]

I’m sure everyone knows of pumped storage - the problem is there’s very few places suitable to site it - hence it’s confined to a few mountains in Wales and Scotland! Very easy to say, but quite tricky to implement it.

I’m not saying what you mentioned was better, just that pumped storage is actually quite difficult to do.

I suspect it might be easier to dig a well or put a tank on stilts, than build a six way automatically controlled crane to precisely stack hundreds of tons of concrete blocks in a pretty circle.
Like I said, we might have to adapt existing principles for new applications, but why reinvent the wheel entirely?

If we want to make a real difference to climate change we need solutions that can be quickly and efficiently implemented, relied on to work, and that actually are worthwhile doing and going to make an actual difference. Otherwise it is just lip service

I think they are now talking about using disused mines now for pumped storage, but the fact the guy got $150M in investment in the first place just beggers belief.
I think many fortunes will be made on the back of environmental vapourware - and that is very sad legacy indeed.

 

[pressbrake1]

And most people want to drive

And mass reliance on public transport during covid would have been a disaster

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Since covid I no longer commute. Saves 20 miles per day. Works for me and my employer. My mileage is similar to yours.
Never bought a car with fewer than three previous owners. House is 92 years old, I buy a lot of second hand clothes out of choice not necessity. No kids. I lead a pretty green life in a lot of ways. I would like to keep the meat, dairy and a central heating system that works though.

Much the same here mate. Though family of 5.


Just having a poke around carbon figures.
2 holidays abroad for my family apparently has the same footprint as my yearly vehicle footprint.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I suspect it might be easier to dig a well or put a tank on stilts, than build a six way automatically controlled crane to precisely stack hundreds of tons of concrete blocks in a pretty circle.
Like I said, we might have to adapt existing principles for new applications, but why reinvent the wheel entirely?

If we want to make a real difference to climate change we need solutions that can be quickly and efficiently implemented, relied on to work, and that actually are worthwhile doing and going to make an actual difference. Otherwise it is just lip service

I think they are now talking about using disused mines now for pumped storage, but the fact the guy got $150M in investment in the first place just beggers belief.
I think many fortunes will be made on the back of environmental vapourware - and that is very sad legacy indeed.

Many fortunes have already been made off the back of renewables.

 

[Richiew]

And mass reliance on public transport during covid would have been a disaster

Last time I had the unfortunate experience of travelling on a bus the seats reeked of old man wee. Absolutely stunk. We can make public transport as shiny as we like but we haven't been able to solve the problem of 80 year old bladders.

Tragedy of the commons. No wonder people prefer to drive.