electrodes

[Memmeddu]

Thanks!
Welder is a Sherman 206 tig, upto 200a.
Do I need 2.5mm for tube and
3 or 4mm for thicker plate?


Bag them up with some sieves and they should stay dry a very long time.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Premium-Grade-3A-Molecular-Sieve-Desiccant-Camera-Silica-Gel-Moisture-damp-watch/362072324608

About welding rods sizes you'll need, unless you're working with very thick metal 2.5mm 7018 is everything you need .
I use it for the 3 up to 10mm range.
I use 3.2 only for the 6 to 20mm range
Bigger rods will increase speed on big thicknesses ,but it will require more power to run them 180A for 4mm 7018 .
My welder can handle that no problems because it has 100% duty cycle up to 194A , yours will be probably closer to its limits

 

[addjunkie]

the size of rod depends how big and chunky your tube is. But in the home environment I've never needed anything bigger than 3.2. A box of 2.5s and a box of 3.2s will be a decent place to start. 6013s are cheaper for messing about than 7018s

 

[Memmeddu]

the size of rod depends how big and chunky your tube is. But in the home environment I've never needed anything bigger than 3.2. A box of 2.5s and a box of 3.2s will be a decent place to start. 6013s are cheaper for messing about than 7018s

Just for start practicing but 7018 is way easier to control

 

[AndVal]

I use 3.2 only for the 6 to 20mm range

3.2 for 2cm !!
Doesn't that take you ages?

 

[Memmeddu]

3.2 for 2cm !!
Doesn't that take you ages?

Of course it does but I won't stress too much my welder and I can't weld too much with such high current (breaker panel will trip)
It's enough rare for me to work way over 12mm

 

[Kram]

Did my first arc welds today - so my opinion of each rod has no value. I was trying to stay within the Sherman 206p current ranges which dont really match the packets? 80-120A for 2.5mm (60-100 on box), 100-140A for 3.2mm, but I think the 3.2mm's need more, upto 180?

@Tangledfeet sent me some Esab 6013's and some 7018's. I started with the 6013.

12mm plate, could not get it started. It would stick. 5mm plate and they just went smoothly, gentle pressure and no gap - have little idea if I should be leaving a gap or feeding with gentle pressure. I dont yet have a chipping hammer but the 6013's chipped off very easy, I like them!

Next the lidl 2.5's. These are marked CMC RC11, so I assume 6011's? Easy to start and very difficult to chip off! however they went down nicely on the 12mm plate at 120A. I tried a fillet 12mm to 5mm plates. First bead seemed good but undercut at the edges, is it a problem if another bead is going ontop?

Swapped to 7018's, just couldnt get started, sticking!
Went back to 2.5mm's

40mm x2mm tube Had to turn amps right down. The 2.5mm rods wouldnt give a nice fillet. I swapped the 7018, they taught me they need a gap, then they worked very nicely.

While I could buy a proper stick holder the spare tig head worked well and saves me finding somewhere to store it. Tig collets are a pain so I will turn something better I have a lump of copper for it.

I do need a decent chipping hammer/brush/thing. Stabbing with a screwdriver was not fun. What type is best?

I am struggling with ending the weld. Pulling away just pulls a massive arc and melts everything. How is it supposed to be stopped?

Edit - DCEP, as the manual suggested it.
Also tried arc force upto 40A but I didnt notice what was changing.

 

[addjunkie]

For chipping I just use a 1 inch cold chisel. Never liked the hammer, and a wire brush. Stick with the currents on the box. Are you runnning DCEN or EP?

 

[Tangledfeet]

These are marked CMC RC11, so I assume 6011's?

Lidl electrodes

I spotted the Lidl stick welders in stock again, and 1kg packets of rods for £2.99 each, so grabbed a packet of each size. The bigger packet has no writing in English, the smaller does, it says they can be used electrode positive or negative, but which would be best, I'm just getting started to...

www.mig-welding.co.uk

6012's According to this discussion, may try some if they're in stock at local Lidl.

EDIT: Looks like they may be wrong and they are 6013... I'm off to bed!

 

[TechnicAl]

6012 and 6013 are essentially the same. The classification differential is that 6012 are bonded using Sodiun Silicate whilst 6013 use Potassium Silicate.....in truth very few coatings are bonded using one Silicate.........nearly always use a mixture of Potassium and Sodium. Therefore manufacturers differentiate by the properties imparted by these silicates, Potassium will promote a smoother less spattery arc, whilst Sodium will impart, penetration but more spatter....hence the mixture.....there are also effects of the minerals in the coatings.
Over the years 6013 has become the popular coding and within that you get variations from those such as Fincord M that penetrate very little to the Vodex types which are better...........if you used the letter of the spec Vodex and a few others should be 6012 but that would exclude them from many WPs as that states 6013...........therefore they are just about all coded 6013 making a 6012 a very rare commodity.
Hope Ive explained it well.

 

[Munkul]

Just a little thing - your TIG torch flex cable is designed for 150 amps with gas running through it to cool it. I'd be wary of using the same cable without the cooling effect and with stick voltages running higher - there will be a chunk of power going through it, it might heat up and degrade it rapidly if you use it quite a bit. It might be important, it might not, depending on how hard you use it

 

[Feet 'n Inches]

I do need a decent chipping hammer/brush/thing. Stabbing with a screwdriver was not fun. What type is best?

Cold chisel is one option or you could grind a bevel on an old flat file so it looks like a wood chisel (also break off most of the file's tang). Mine rarely needs sharpening as it's pretty hard and it's also great for shifting spatter.

 

[couchmusician]

Another interesting topic about Rods. Perhaps the following info will help.

Examining the finer points of 6010, 6011, and 7018

Knowing which rods tend to do what in the field can save you time and make for better results when the job is through.

www.thefabricator.com

I've attached a picture of an easy to make rod oven. Its not a hot oven but it will keep open containers dry. A 75 or 100 watt bulb is what I use. The photo of the expanded metal attached to a piece of wood is positioned in front of the bulb which is mounted on the rear panel of the mailbox.

 

[MattF]

fincord m are realy good rods, if you cant weld with them u never will be any good

Way to put pressure on someone there.

 

[Feet 'n Inches]

Thanks to @TechnicAl for the clarification on the differences between 6012s and 6013s. My memory of them was that 6012s were great for vertical down on steeper inclines than a 6013, better penetration, more spatter and that the slag was a real sod to remove. A piece of mechanical hacksaw blade ground to a hook shape came in very useful for scraping the the slag off the edges of root runs on vee butts when using 6012s.

 

[zeppelin builder]

Yep always the same I have 5kg package , someone gave them to me awhile ago.
If you go to buy them they are around 120 euros
I think that the cause could be a concomitance of factors .
Badly stored
Old rods
Open box in dump weather
Welder not capable to run E6010
Maybe just me

But the problem happens even if I use my engine driven which should run them

you need a steeply drooping voltage curve and probably a bit tuition
damp 6010 should be no problem

 

[Kram]

www.zoro.co.uk/shop/welding-brazing-and-soldering/arc-welding-electrodes/e7018-4-00mmx400mm-basic-electrodes-5kg/p/ZT1001104X

Zoro have a 5kg pack of 7018's for 8 quid on clearance, might be useful to someone. Im assuming Kennedy is generally good quality on all their stuff.

 

[TechnicAl]

www.zoro.co.uk/shop/welding-brazing-and-soldering/arc-welding-electrodes/e7018-4-00mmx400mm-basic-electrodes-5kg/p/ZT1001104X

Zoro have a 5kg pack of 7018's for 8 quid on clearance, might be useful to someone. Im assuming Kennedy is generally good quality on all their stuff.

they look dark for 7018s.....most are light grey....just a comment

 

[Robert Mullins]

Esab, Bohler, Lincoln, Oerlikon, any of the big names will sell really good rods.
In fairness, I have rarely seen a really bad rod, but I do tend to buy the names.
I like stick welding and much prefer it to mig for anything over 5mm.
I also prefer 7018s over 6013s and get on much better with them, but (and it's a big but) they are hard to restart compared to 6013s which can be a pain when starting out.

The restart issue with low-hydrogen is the deep cone and the slag over the end of the wire: I've worked with many pressure vessel/pipe welders who will not contemplate using any pre-used electrode:
You need to break the flux cone away to expose the core wire, and clean any slag off, restart in the usual manner

 

[Turbo]

Did my first arc welds today - so my opinion of each rod has no value. I was trying to stay within the Sherman 206p current ranges which dont really match the packets? 80-120A for 2.5mm (60-100 on box), 100-140A for 3.2mm, but I think the 3.2mm's need more, upto 180?

@Tangledfeet sent me some Esab 6013's and some 7018's. I started with the 6013.

12mm plate, could not get it started. It would stick. 5mm plate and they just went smoothly, gentle pressure and no gap - have little idea if I should be leaving a gap or feeding with gentle pressure. I dont yet have a chipping hammer but the 6013's chipped off very easy, I like them!
View attachment 276055

Next the lidl 2.5's. These are marked CMC RC11, so I assume 6011's? Easy to start and very difficult to chip off! however they went down nicely on the 12mm plate at 120A. I tried a fillet 12mm to 5mm plates. First bead seemed good but undercut at the edges, is it a problem if another bead is going ontop?
View attachment 276056
View attachment 276057
Swapped to 7018's, just couldnt get started, sticking!
Went back to 2.5mm's

40mm x2mm tube Had to turn amps right down. The 2.5mm rods wouldnt give a nice fillet. I swapped the 7018, they taught me they need a gap, then they worked very nicely.
View attachment 276058

While I could buy a proper stick holder the spare tig head worked well and saves me finding somewhere to store it. Tig collets are a pain so I will turn something better I have a lump of copper for it.

I do need a decent chipping hammer/brush/thing. Stabbing with a screwdriver was not fun. What type is best?

I am struggling with ending the weld. Pulling away just pulls a massive arc and melts everything. How is it supposed to be stopped?

Edit - DCEP, as the manual suggested it.
Also tried arc force upto 40A but I didnt notice what was changing.

Do yourself a favour & buy a proper mma lead for your welder. Using the tig torch for mma is ok for a quick tack or 2, I've done it several times over the years but using it regularly will damage your tig torch by overheating it & straining the head. It's only designed to hold a small tungsten electrode, not a big 350mm mma rod!

As for rods, I would start with a decent 6013. Another brand to look for is INE blu, a lovely rod to use & not expensive. 7018's do make vertical welds a lot easier but they are frustrating to get started, especially for a beginner & not all welders will run them.

 

[Jonny weld]

I purchased a box of Sip from toolststion. Do I have made a mistake?