Epoxy paint lacking adhesion

[Ingleberry]

I don't get the first line mate, 2k is only harmfull when sprayed

I presumed 2k is nasty however applied risking others around the workshop.

If it's safer to roller on then shall get Lechler 29107 epoxy which was £75 for 6l inc 2l hardner and tint.

Don't know if that is good as long as it adheres better than Bilt hamber and rustbuster epoxies don't care how much it costs.

 

[Ingleberry]

I dont see anyone saying its dangerous, just a slight risk. Ive read some saying as long as it doesn't get airborne its far less a risk. Ive also been told people can get asthma from 1k airborne spray too.

For me i wear a paint suit, gloves and a quality new mask when rollering it on.

Ive seen quite a few TV paint shows where they are mixing up 2k paint with no mask or being completely covered up.


The Jotun 87 is a straight on a keyed clean steel primer, no etch needed.

Thank you that's helpful confirmation i won't etch the panels with upol 8 etch then

 

[Chipper]

Seen lots of stirring but can't remember seeing lots of adding hardener on telly. Anyway, common sense though it is, there's no great need to mask up when mixing for the iso's, it's a problem when it's airborne. Should mask up when using thinners though. OP says brush & roller, so the iso's aren't a problem in the normal way. Spraying is something else of course.

Ingleberry where did you hear the hardener has iso's? The MSDS for 29370 doesn't list any, unless any of the declared hazardouse components are isocyanate despite their apparent names.

Yes you can get an asthma attack from sprayed 1k and others, 1k & celly is usually 50% thinners for a start and then there's the paint particles themselves making up the fog.
You can get asthma attacks from loads of particulate things inc city air, pollen, dust etc etc, and attacks can be fatal for some - seen it happen. Had asthma since I was 3.

As discussed the surface needs a good scuffing so the J87 or whatever can get a good mechanical bite, etching is redundant.

 

[Weldinator]

I dont know how 'surface tolerant' Lechler 29107 is but i do know the Jotun 87 is. I prefer to use the 87 on chassis parts if thats what you want it for.

 

[langy]

Hang on, I thought 2k was was dangerous even when rollered?

Hence: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27093

I'm not saying its dangerous when rollered but i sometimes gives me a headache so i wear a mask, Its probably the extra thinner thats needed when rollering.

 

[langy]

Thank you that's helpful confirmation i won't etch the panels with upol 8 etch then

If your using epoxy primer it goes straight on bare steel, Its very much like etch primer but a better and more modern product, you don't use the 2 together.

 

[Ingleberry]

Langy thank you it makes sense everyone saying etch this etch that yet all products themselves all say apply to bare steel.

Jotamastic was best out the lot so far but way too thick for top side, tried more thinners still waiting for it to go off days later? Lechlar wasn’t entirely compatible solvent lifted around the edges.

I now have selection of epoxy and pretty disappointed with trials with mixed results, maybe I should revert back to dark ages with zinc primer and hope?

Really do not want to use plastic like modern paint on the vintage, any other alternatives for celly paint?

 

[Chipper]

Apart from already saying J87s not great topside...something's wrong, should dry overnight. Praps not enough heat/wrong grade. I've got Lechler overlapping on J87 no problem on a bike I'm doing just now, and my last 2 cars.
Celly or enamels are your older/vintage style paints.

 

[kelsham]

OK back to the past, I must admit to using old technology.

I use Jenolite to treat surface rust after mechanically cleaning the surface. I follow it up with two coats of Bondaprimer.

I have used this system for years, it is compatible with cellulose.

Bonda primer is still available on ebay. I have just bought 2 1/2 litres.

Just looked into an engine bay I treated fifteen years ago, it is still sound.

Regards Kels.

 

[Ingleberry]

Sorry Chipper i ment Jotamastic 87 standard was best so far will use that underneath for sure didnt react with upol stone chip and cellulose paint either. For top side tried thinning out more than recommended to make it go on better which didn't work as its still soft compared with trial without any thinners.

Lechler had solvent lift around edges in the middle it seemed ok, rolled on much nicer though than 87. Not convinced its bonded well with celly just sitting on top but atleast it stuck to metal really well couldn't lift it with my finger nails only a gasket scraper worked. Will see if it will flake off today since other epoxy did after few days, guess only good for complete 2k systems

ps different paint suppliers told me iso was in the hardner, could be wrong wouldn't be first time i had bad advice from various paint shops and suppliers.

 

[Ingleberry]

OK back to the past, I must admit to using old technology.

I use Jenolite to treat surface rust after mechanically cleaning the surface. I follow it up with two coats of Bondaprimer.

I have used this system for years, it is compatible with cellulose.

Bonda primer is still available on ebay. I have just bought 2 1/2 litres.

Just looked into an engine bay I treated fifteen years ago, it is still sound.

Regards Kels.

Thank you i see if anyone local stocks it

 

[Weldinator]

Absolutely, ive had a lot of miss information from paint shops before now too. The Tech sheet of any product will tell the whole story.

 

[langy]

Langy thank you it makes sense everyone saying etch this etch that yet all products themselves all say apply to bare steel.

Jotamastic was best out the lot so far but way too thick for top side, tried more thinners still waiting for it to go off days later? Lechlar wasn’t entirely compatible solvent lifted around the edges.

I now have selection of epoxy and pretty disappointed with trials with mixed results, maybe I should revert back to dark ages with zinc primer and hope?

Really do not want to use plastic like modern paint on the vintage, any other alternatives for celly paint?

I think you have something wrong as Lechlar epoxy should be well off in an hour.

 

[Ingleberry]

The Lechlar epoxy did set in 45mins, left it 24hrs then tried cellulose primer as that dried it wrinkled around the edges.

Jotamastic+lots of thinners patch didn't cure as expected but was worth a trial i thought.

Found some bonda primer, at this rate be no more space left on the scrap panel (removed from the same car) If this doesn't work going back to old methods with zinc primer

 

[steveo3002]

jota would be way better than bonda primer ...is there a reason you cant wait for it to cure?

 

[Championship White]

Jota, in my experience, takes quite a while to cure fully, it's farily easy to scratch off with something sharp like a chisel for a few days to a week but will end up rock hard. I was worried too when I first applied to some inner arches, thinking I'd put on too much and it wouldn't cure but it was fine.

 

[Weldinator]

Same here, only the other day i was preparing the back end of the chassis floor pan and tried to chip this Jotun off the floor pan with a bluntish chisel and it just would not come off, very impressed with its adhesion abilities.

It takes 7 days to fully cure, depending on temps and hardener type, summer or winter grade.

You'll be fine with the Jotun.

 

[Chipper]

Curing and workable aren't the same, like enamels take weeks to cure but can be recoated etc far sooner. Jotun's always dry & workable next day here, stays tacky a few hours and softish the first day, day 2 it's rock hard. Full cure time is something else. If it's not dry next day and solid after that, something's up, might be temps, grade, or possibly mixing, it's hard work to stir up by hand.

 

[Weldinator]

I used a wooden flat spatula used for frying food, very wide and did the job well.

I painted another 2k paint onto the 87 3 days later before it fully cured itself.

I think its best to ring Jotun them selves, ask for technical and they will sort you out properly.

 

[Ingleberry]

jota would be way better than bonda primer ...is there a reason you cant wait for it to cure?

care to explain why?