Burdekin
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Jotun 87 works well as a high build primer as well.
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Dcal
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2K primer is lovely to sand and far nicer to work with than epoxy but there is no need to use it over epoxy if you don't want to.
I do like the way you can sand the 2K and know that you still have the required amount of epoxy providing the real protection. If you sand through to the epoxy you can just add more 2K where you need it and sort out any defects.
You can achieve the same thing by using a different colour of epoxy or adding some tinter to change the shade.
Then you know you are not over sanding and are leaving the required DFT for the primer.
I do like the way you can sand the 2K and know that you still have the required amount of epoxy providing the real protection. If you sand through to the epoxy you can just add more 2K where you need it and sort out any defects.
You can achieve the same thing by using a different colour of epoxy or adding some tinter to change the shade.
Then you know you are not over sanding and are leaving the required DFT for the primer.
Furiokid
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So my plan was to put a coat of Epoxy Primer on to protect all the bodywork, and then I’m going to do whatever repairs I need to do and top up the Epoxy where ever I’ve removed it, then I was going to do any filler work and seam sealing, then I thought you were supposed to put a high build primer over the top?
Is it best not too then? Would I just put another coat of Epoxy on over the seam sealer and filler?
ajlelectronics
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The choice is yours, many do but personally I don't and wouldn't. The final epoxy coats are perfect for colour coats, they are just a little harder to flat than 2k primer. They are isocyanate free too, which I think is a benefit.
Dcal
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What you are proposing is what I do and it works well for me.
If you are working with something that needs a lot of work and there are bits of filler, old paint, low spots, bare steel etc. don't underestimate the advantage of having something that's easy to sand.
Epoxy is relative hard and if you use too fine a paper when you are flatting it, it's very easy to follow the lumps and bumps and get a wavy surface.
I do block the epoxy but use coarse paper and then take the sanding scratches out with a finer abrasive on the 2K filler.
I always dry sand and have never seen a micro blister in any of my paint.
If you are using 2K top coats you should already be taking the precaution with the primer (why would you not) but if you aren’t set up for 2K just use the epoxy and be prepared for slightly more work.
Furiokid
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Yeah unfortunately I don’t have the equipment or facilities to use 2k so think I’m going to be using Cellulose and was then thinking of using Upol 1k clear over the top, that’s why I wasn’t sure if I needed Cellulose high build over the Epoxy before the top coat
Kram
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Interesting to know about the 2k primer. I assume it could be rollered? Might get a small tin.
I got a 5L tin of Upol S2085 1k last year as it was cheaper than three 1 litre tins. If you want any, I can decant a litre or two for £10/L.
Furiokid
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I’m well off needing any at the minute, not even bought my top coat or anything as got a few bits to do to the shell, but appreciate the offer thank you
theMenace
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Interesting thread. I've just finished repairing my pickup bed which has been blasted to bare metal. I usually use etch prime, but it will need a bit of filler work so I want to go for an epoxy primer this time, followed by bodywork, another epoxy then basecoat and laquer.
Does the lechler spray well using a conventional or HVLP spray gun or is it also best with airless? And can it be sanded back or does it work better with a sealer?
I bought some single pack epoxy primer and tested it on some other blasted bits, but it's so thick! The place I bought it from said you could spray it thinned to 15%, it needed thinning nearly 50% to even go through a gun, they maybe meant airless spray, but usually specify.
Does the lechler spray well using a conventional or HVLP spray gun or is it also best with airless? And can it be sanded back or does it work better with a sealer?
I bought some single pack epoxy primer and tested it on some other blasted bits, but it's so thick! The place I bought it from said you could spray it thinned to 15%, it needed thinning nearly 50% to even go through a gun, they maybe meant airless spray, but usually specify.
Dcal
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The lechleris designed to spray well with a standard gravity gun (1.8 fluid tip)
HVLP should work OK but depends on the gun.
Your plan should work very well.
The epoxy will sand or you can use a sealer if you wish, however make sure you overcoat the epoxy within the times in the TDA or sand before further coats of whatever.
What's the single pack epoxy you got?
I'm not sure single pack epoxy is a thing, but happy to be proved wrong.
There is a single pack epoxy in rattle cans but I think it's a bit of a con.
You can't beat proper two part epoxy for adhesion and protection.
HVLP should work OK but depends on the gun.
Your plan should work very well.
The epoxy will sand or you can use a sealer if you wish, however make sure you overcoat the epoxy within the times in the TDA or sand before further coats of whatever.
What's the single pack epoxy you got?
I'm not sure single pack epoxy is a thing, but happy to be proved wrong.
There is a single pack epoxy in rattle cans but I think it's a bit of a con.
You can't beat proper two part epoxy for adhesion and protection.
Kram
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I need to read up on organic chemistry, but I believe 1k epoxy just contains epoxide rings, but as there is no hardener it can not react? interesting anyway.
en.wikipedia.org
courses.lumenlearning.com
Epoxide - Wikipedia
9.6. Epoxide reactions | Organic Chemistry 1: An open textbook
courses.lumenlearning.com
theMenace
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Thanks very much, this is exactly what I wanted to know. Will give the Lechler a go, then decide on sanding and sealer.
Datasheet states gravity gun with 1.8 tip as you said, so I'll go for that.
The 1k I got from a local paint company, though I didn't think it existed either. I'm sure it has its uses, but probably not here. I have already primed the bumper mounts with it, so will see how it compares to the 2k. Picture below shows just how thick it is - I was expecting something more like standard etch primer.
I brushed on some rustbuster em121 (I believe it's repackaged Jotun Smartpack) on some parts I wouldn't have access to.
I was a bit worried about adhesion and wanted to test it out before using it for the full underside. All the Jotun spec sheets specify it should be used on a blasted surface, and I was limited to sanding to key. But I did read that the Smartpack is designed for better adhesion in non idea situations like that (why I didn't just go for Jotun 87 or similar).
Have to say, initial impressions is very good. Just handling the parts I've painted (soon to be inaccessible sections and the backs of panels etc), it seems really tough. I've tried to scrape it off along edges to weld and it's a bugger to remove.
Very thick though, you'd have to thin it a lot to spray. And probably not for body panels.
Obviously, nothing like a true test of having it on a running car for 10 years, but I'll definitely be getting more for the full underside.
I was a bit worried about adhesion and wanted to test it out before using it for the full underside. All the Jotun spec sheets specify it should be used on a blasted surface, and I was limited to sanding to key. But I did read that the Smartpack is designed for better adhesion in non idea situations like that (why I didn't just go for Jotun 87 or similar).
Have to say, initial impressions is very good. Just handling the parts I've painted (soon to be inaccessible sections and the backs of panels etc), it seems really tough. I've tried to scrape it off along edges to weld and it's a bugger to remove.
Very thick though, you'd have to thin it a lot to spray. And probably not for body panels.
Obviously, nothing like a true test of having it on a running car for 10 years, but I'll definitely be getting more for the full underside.
rcx132
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I remember this conversation with you a couple of years ago and will avoid the GreenTi filler layer this time. Do you ever add extra coats of epoxy primers where there's low spots to fill?
Smouser
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I used Jotamastic 90 winter grade on some gates I welded up.
I will be the first to admit I don't really have a clue what I am doing when it comes to welding or spray painting
.
However, the Jotamastic came out quite good when sprayed with a 2.5mm HVLP cheap gun in my opinion.
The photos actually make the finish looks worse than what it is in real life.
I will be the first to admit I don't really have a clue what I am doing when it comes to welding or spray painting
.However, the Jotamastic came out quite good when sprayed with a 2.5mm HVLP cheap gun in my opinion.
The photos actually make the finish looks worse than what it is in real life.
Dcal
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I used Jotamastic 90 winter grade on some gates I welded up.
I will be the first to admit I don't really have a clue what I am doing when it comes to welding or spray painting
However, the Jotamastic came out quite good when sprayed with a 2.5mm HVLP cheap gun in my opinion.
The photos actually make the finish looks worse than what it is in real life.
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Nice job.
It is surprising how good a finish you can get with the jotun if you thin it a bit and use a 2.5 fluid tip.
If you let it cure well it also sands well, so I use it as an epoxy primer filler on panels that have has a lot of work. (where you would normally use a polyester spray filler.)
ajlelectronics
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Low spots need Dolphin Glaze. Then a further epoxy coat(s) over the top if you want to avoid spray fillers etc.
epoxy primers do vary in protection. in June 21017 I reskinned the bonnet on my car as the orginal framework was a bit rotten and a new bonnet would look out of place on the car, so I had a new bonnet, removed the skin, took the framework back to bare metal and painted it in lechler 29107 epoxy primer on both sides
and I also brushed some gravitex on it, and now rust is showing though in places especially on the front edge of the bonnet. but this car is outside in all weathers so is a proper long term and driven once a week.
The Jotun 87 that I'm using under the car with any thing on top of it is fairing up much better.
for long term storage away from the elements I think it'll be fine long term though.
and I also brushed some gravitex on it, and now rust is showing though in places especially on the front edge of the bonnet. but this car is outside in all weathers so is a proper long term and driven once a week.
The Jotun 87 that I'm using under the car with any thing on top of it is fairing up much better.
for long term storage away from the elements I think it'll be fine long term though.
