Fillet welds driving me crazy

[Richard.]

It actually looks like a bit of arc blow is going on there on the fillet, running a cheap rod hot wont help but welding 8mm with a 2.5mm I should certainly want a good few amps personally certainly 90 or more. The difficulty is then controlling that arc at the higher amps, it needs to be kept short in the arc or it will go all flarey on you. Like I say previous faced with a poor supply I will often burn a 2.5 mm hot rather than a 3.2 cold myself, remember though I might burn a 5kg box in a week so there is a bit of practice going on

Now a 2.5mm on a straight drag just wont put in such a wide bead as you show in the pictures so you are weaving, don't! just stick it into the corner and come straight back at a good drag angle with the "tight short" arc aimed middle for diddle into the joint. Once you have that build the multi pass you intend all straight drag.

3.2mm is more suited but you set might not burn them good on your set your going to need 120 amps give or take, hard to say because rods, set, material, position all matter on setting up. On the old turn wheel sets I shouldn't even bother looking at what it says much personally just act on what you see

I'm not much of an arc welder tbh I don't do enough of it to justify been any good but I had a quick go at your joint today and found a 3.2 @ 125 amps to be more stable.
My results at top and as I say I'm not an expert by any stretch so you might have more joy with a bigger rod. I did.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I was also taught to do a slight weave when welding fillet roots, it's useful as it helps make sure the arc is evenly distributed between the two plates. Not a big Christmas tree motion but a very slight zig zag or circular motion.

 

[RonHopeful]

Well, one thing is certain, Welding is a cruel mistress!
Perhaps I'll perhaps go back to some thinner steel. If I can get that right, I'll work up from there.

 

[Richard.]

I think some one to one tutoring is needed before all faith is lost. It runs beads just fine on the flat according to those pictures so it's a bit of fillet welding guidance and your home and dry. I'm willing to bet there are lots of people on here within an hours drive to you that would be happy to offer a bit of time (I would no problem but I'm 2 hours away) put up a thread asking for a bit of one on one and tell people how far your willing to travel. More importantly take your machine with you. No point in learning on a fancy inverter then struggling again with your ac box. If you have no luck and want to travel 2 hours pm me and I'll give up some time to help with the basics. I'm not a full time rod burner but I can achieve some nice results in and out of position.

 

[PTvor]

I think it's a bit like driving. When you start, you've got all these things to think about and get right, clutch control, being in the right gear, braking properly and not stalling the car etc, as well as following the rules of the road. Gradually you find all this starts to happen in the background without much active thought, so you can concentrate on driving safely and with due consideration.

Halford's rods in particular have had a bad name on here as expensive and hard to use. That seems like learning to drive in an old banger you've got to hold in gear; you just don't need extra problems when you are doing something hard enough anyway.

 

[HughF]

Ron, I am often travelling past the Winchester area. I'll see if I can pop in for an hour if you can provide a sarnie and a can of diet coke Probably be in a couple of weekends time but I can't promise anything as I'm pretty busy this month.

 

[RonHopeful]

Ron, I am often travelling past the Winchester area. I'll see if I can pop in for an hour if you can provide a sarnie and a can of diet coke Probably be in a couple of weekends time but I can't promise anything as I'm pretty busy this month.

Thank you - that would be great. I'll PM you my contact details.

 

[RonHopeful]

I think it's a bit like driving. When you start, you've got all these things to think about and get right, clutch control, being in the right gear, braking properly and not stalling the car etc, as well as following the rules of the road. Gradually you find all this starts to happen in the background without much active thought, so you can concentrate on driving safely and with due consideration.

Halford's rods in particular have had a bad name on here as expensive and hard to use. That seems like learning to drive in an old banger you've got to hold in gear; you just don't need extra problems when you are doing something hard enough anyway.

Yup. I made the mistake early on of thinking "hey, it's pretty easy to stick bits of metal together" but that's just like stepping on the accelerator on an empty stretch of road. As with any other skill, you really do need to nail the basics. One reason I'm doing most of my stuff with 2.5mm rods is that I'm half way through one 5kg box of them, and have another 5kg in the airing cupboard! I bought the 3.2 Halfords rods just to see what it was like to use one.

Equipment is always tricky. For most things, better equipment makes things easier. But often, you also have to get to a reasonable standard before you can really appreciate the better equipment. At the moment, I take it on trust that I'd find things easier with a DC inverter. But I'm not sure that I'm at the stage where I'd really appreciate it. Perhaps I'll treat myself to one once I get these fillet welds sorted!

 

[PTvor]

Equipment is always tricky. For most things, better equipment makes things easier. But often, you also have to get to a reasonable standard before you can really appreciate the better equipment. At the moment, I take it on trust that I'd find things easier with a DC inverter. But I'm not sure that I'm at the stage where I'd really appreciate it. Perhaps I'll treat myself to one once I get these fillet welds sorted!

It depends. If you want to learn to play the guitar, you don't need a £5,000 concert guitar, on the other hand you're never going to get anywhere with a plywood thing that goes out of tune as you play it. Years ago the standard advice was to get a moderately priced new Yamaha, maybe not the best but without a host of irritating problems.

The biggest problem with buzz boxes is that they overheat so easily, which is a PITA if you want to do a lot of practice. The overheating gets worse as you up the amps to use bigger rods.

Inverters are definitely nicer with hot start, anti-stick and a smoother arc. I think it's more a question of whether you can justify the expense than buying something and paying for qualities you won't appreciate and can't take advantage of.

 

[rich r]

Also if you're only going to be welding occasionally, say repairing the odd broken gate hinge or hanging basket bracket, then a £30 buzzbox makes perfect sense rather than spending several hundred pounds on a nice inverter set that's just going to sit gathering dust most of the time. But the quality of the rods are what make a cheap buzzbox usable. I'm using 2.5mm Oerlikon Fincords on my Aldi 160A buzzbox, and they work fantastically. Fillets are usually no problem, and in general slag just peels off on its own (or at worst just needs a nudge to separate it as one piece).

I'm still rubbish at vertical or in fact anything other than having what I need to weld sitting horizontally. But I get by, even if it did mean having to turn a huge tractor mower on its side to weld the chassis!

 

[Kent]

View attachment 65184 I'm not much of an arc welder tbh I don't do enough of it to justify been any good but I had a quick go at your joint today and found a 3.2 @ 125 amps to be more stable.
My results at top and as I say I'm not an expert by any stretch so you might have more joy with a bigger rod. I did.

I quite agree based on the material being welded but not all cheap buzz boxes will hold out to the draw required for a 3.2mm some yes but others no. its amazing what a few hours extra practice achieves eh

 

[Kent]

Also if you're only going to be welding occasionally, say repairing the odd broken gate hinge or hanging basket bracket, then a £30 buzzbox makes perfect sense rather than spending several hundred pounds on a nice inverter set that's just going to sit gathering dust most of the time. But the quality of the rods are what make a cheap buzzbox usable. I'm using 2.5mm Oerlikon Fincords on my Aldi 160A buzzbox, and they work fantastically. Fillets are usually no problem, and in general slag just peels off on its own (or at worst just needs a nudge to separate it as one piece).

I'm still rubbish at vertical or in fact anything other than having what I need to weld sitting horizontally. But I get by, even if it did mean having to turn a huge tractor mower on its side to weld the chassis!

what many forget is its ok doing Vup off some good stance but with very restricted access like you perhaps have on a tractor body mower chassis its a heck of a site harder. here I was laid on my dominant side scrunched up in a little pain on a rocking boat! Embarrassing really and wouldn't have put it in if it was critical chances of it passing x-ray std non existent I suppose if I was able to take a few hours over it but its just a foot locker

 

[Bill Edwards]

I'd probably get some better rods. The ones you have may be fine, or they may be rubbish, and we've no way of telling from here.

But good 6013 rods make a big difference compared with bad ones and even experienced welders find them much better, trying to learn the basics with poor rods really isn't ideal.

As to an inverter, you will see some benefits. They're smoother and nicer to use.
Whether you should buy one or not is another question, and I think it should depend on what welding you plan to do. If you expect to do a lot then they're probably worth the investment, if you just want a bit of practice to get the hang of things to do the odd repair or project where you won't have it overheating then it may not be worth it.
It's possible to produce adequate welds with them, I have used them for years. They aren't my first choice, but they do the job.

 

[Richard.]

I quite agree based on the material being welded but not all cheap buzz boxes will hold out to the draw required for a 3.2mm some yes but others no. its amazing what a few hours extra practice achieves eh

It is your right. And I do really enjoy it when the chance arises to burn a few sticks. I do get the odd bit at work to do and it's always good fun.

 

[RonHopeful]

I've made some progress - thanks to a bad back. I normally weld standing at my bench, which is waist height. But my back's playing up so I stood the workpiece on a length of 8mm box section, which raised it to about chest height. So, I ended up with the rod holder up near my jaw. Interestingly, my first couple of welds were like honeycomb - but they were consistent. With a bit of adjustment, I started producing welds that are half-decent in places. So, my problems really do seem to be mainly with rod and drag angle. For 5mm steel, 80 amps seems to be about right for 2.5mm rods and 100ish for 3.25mm rods.

 

[norlander]

sorry to hear about your bad back, but glad you made some progress,

 

[PTvor]

Glad to hear that you're making progress.

Try using a seat so that you are comfortable and you can do it like any other detailed work. You wouldn't try to write or draw standing at a desk. If you have to weld hinges onto a gate post or something you can't use a seat, but you still make yourself as comfortable as you can, and you have to solve one problem at a time.

 

[RonHopeful]

I hope I've done the right thing - last night I received an email from Tradeweld, offering a Parweld XTI 160 MMA inverter for £174.99, including delivery and 2 year warranty. I was intending to buy this machine in July - hopefully as a reward to myself for getting more proficient with my AC buzz box. But it seemed like a good price, so I just bought it. As usual, guilt and doubt quickly followed!
I'm not expecting it to magically solve all my welding problems - but I'm hoping it'll make things a bit easier.

 

[HughF]

Has the inverter arrived yet Roger?

 

[RonHopeful]

Has the inverter arrived yet Roger?

Not yet - but the shed's all ready for it!