Gas Less MIG

[a111r]

Agree with all the above.
The cheap DIY AC MIGs often have a range of 55A to 90A as this saves maybe a £ of copper wire on the primary winding of the transformer.
The Lidl offering has smarter triac control. The video at 3.03, shows c. 0.7 mm steel being flux core welded successfully.
Most would be blowing holes. Unless it's been faked by using a MinArcmig...

 

[Jack Ryan]

Have you a link to a gasless wire that can be used in short circuit?

As I have posted before, most FCAW-S and FCAW-G wires are designed for spray transfer as the design goal for many of them is all positional structural welding. Some of the smaller wires designed for lower currents (often less than 200 amps) are designed for short circuit transfer. The Kobelco catalogues contain quite a few examples.



If you are interested, it also contains flux cored TIG fillers designed for one sided welding.

Jack

 

[Dcal]

Agree with all the above.
The cheap DIY AC MIGs often have a range of 55A to 90A as this saves maybe a £ of copper wire on the primary winding of the transformer.
The Lidl offering has smarter triac control. The video at 3.03, shows c. 0.7 mm steel being flux core welded successfully.
Most would be blowing holes. Unless it's been faked by using a MinArcmig...

Thanks for the link @a111r at least it shows welding thin steel for a change.
However, is that a butt joint or just a scribed line on the sample?
If it's a butt I'd say you could probably make that work. He was keeping the trigger pulled for a lot longer than I would on thin stuff so that might be a help and the welds after the initial tacks did look sound.
I bought the 0.6 and 0.9 versions of the Lidle wire to try out so might have another go.
I don't think I've knurled rollers for the 0.6 but I’ll see if it works.

@Jack Ryan is that not dual shield wire?
I've used dual shield for positional work on structural steel and it's fantastic, never seen one that's less than 1.2 so that is interesting, but it's gasless wire I'm interested in. If I've not run out of gas (or not welding outside) I'd just use solid wire so I don't see the advantage of dual shield for car body work.
I'm sort of fed up buying wire just to be disappointed so it would be great if someone had experience of the actual wire.
Have you welded with the Kobelco or similar on thin stuff?

 

[Jack Ryan]

is that not dual shield wire?
I've used dual shield for positional work on structural steel and it's fantastic, never seen one that's less than 1.2 so that is interesting, but it's gasless wire I'm interested in. If I've not run out of gas (or not welding outside) I'd just use solid wire so I don't see the advantage of dual shield for car body work.
I'm sort of fed up buying wire just to be disappointed so it would be great if someone had experience of the actual wire.
Have you welded with the Kobelco or similar on thin stuff?

Yes it is, the selection in FCAW-S is much smaller and I haven't used any. FCAW-G is more about getting the alloys right at the weld so not much call for it in bodywork and the options that exist would probably just make windows.

There is an AWS classification:
A7.13 EXXT-13 Classifications. Electrodes of this classification are self-shielded and operate on DCEN and are usually welded with a short-arc transfer.

I don't recall seeing any in the Kobelco catalogues.

Sorry, I wasn't quite on the same page.

Jack

 

[Munkul]

Yes it is, the selection in FCAW-S is much smaller and I haven't used any. FCAW-G is more about getting the alloys right at the weld so not much call for it in bodywork and the options that exist would probably just make windows.

There is an AWS classification:
A7.13 EXXT-13 Classifications. Electrodes of this classification are self-shielded and operate on DCEN and are usually welded with a short-arc transfer.

I don't recall seeing any in the Kobelco catalogues.

Sorry, I wasn't quite on the same page.

Jack

Ok I did learn something today.
I understand that it is technically possible to use FCAW-S in short-arc, and the AWS T13 designation covers this.

However... find me one of these wires available commercially on the market today? They don't exist! At least, I can't find one! Plenty of T5, T8, and T11 wire, but no T13.

Why are you countering my statement with technicalities, when you can't back it up with common real world examples?

The reality is, anyone on this forum looking at FCAW-S wires should assume it should be ran in spray arc, and the main problem that people have with hobby grade welders and gasless wire is that they try to run it in short arc.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Why are you countering my statement with technicalities, when you can't back it up with real world examples?

I just thought it was an interesting point and I was thinking more of FCAW-G.

Jack

 

[arther dailey]

regard to gasless wire, what is a good wire to use on 5mm angle , its to use on some farm machinery to sort and looking at mig instead of stick , advice and brand recomended apreciated. presume 1mm or upwards.using eland 240 mig. thanks

 

[Munkul]

NR211MP is a Lincoln wire, consistent quality, easy to run on small machines, limited on metallurgical and toughness properties, but fine for hobby stuff and smaller structural stuff.

I've seen people on this forum call it useless and spattery, but when ran at the right parameters as per lincoln's recommendations, it's great. It would be fine on 5mm angle.

As laid welds, after the slag was brushed off

It comes in 0.9mm diameter and small reels.

Remember anything with an AWS T11 designation doesn't have any qualified toughness properties, so not the best for anything that might get smacked around, moving machinery etc. You'd be better using quality stick electrodes.

 

[arther dailey]

NR211MP is a Lincoln wire, consistent quality, easy to run on small machines, limited on metallurgical and toughness properties, but fine for hobby stuff and smaller structural stuff.

I've seen people on this forum call it useless and spattery, but when ran at the right parameters as per lincoln's recommendations, it's great. It would be fine on 5mm angle.

As laid welds, after the slag was brushed off

It comes in 0.9mm diameter and small reels.

Remember anything with an AWS T11 designation doesn't have any qualified toughness properties, so not the best for anything that might get smacked around, moving machinery etc. You'd be better using quality stick electrodes.

Thankyou @Munkul , any specific rod, one job is the draw/lift bar for some discs so certainly abuse possabilitys there.cheers

 

[Munkul]

We use Bohler 7018 rods for farm equipment, towing eyes, lift arms etc, no complaints of anything breaking they're easy to run vertical up or overhead, and have good impact properties.
We don't bother with re-drying other than a few hours in the stove every few months, it's all mild steel.

either that or a quality 6013, but they're harder to run vertical up since I'm not good on stick to start with

 

[arther dailey]

Thankyou @Munkul , bohler 7018 on my shopping list , and apolagies for cutting in on the thread everyone.

 

[Mark 2]

@doubleboost
Did you swap the feed roller for this John. R Tech only seem to have a V shape one as opposed to a knurled one.

 

[doubleboost]

@doubleboost
Did you swap the feed roller for this John. R Tech only seem to have a V shape one as opposed to a knurled one.

No just left the original in place . Reduced the spring load a little bit . It ran fine welded much better than expected on the thin stuff .

 

[zeppelin builder]

i think if you have done a bit of stick welding its no bother to master
in the past i used 1.6 lincoln inner shield Aka inner death it was known as due to the clouds of white smoke it made . was used extensively at hifab for jacket welding by the wombles (semi skilled trainees )
did a test single bevel 40mm plate 6mm gap 6mm land 5g
the trick for the root was to point the torch downward as demod by a man in a lincoln shirt
fill was crank it up and block it out
(Domestos juice we called it ) kills all known defects lol

dual shield was the death knell for welders , great stuff ! but still gets lots of repairs (lof mostly ) on 2g butt welds , i know because ive arc aired miles of them

 

[God mode restorations]

A very interesting post. I use flux core often. Sometimes get good results and other times it can be a complete nightmare. Most of my outside work is mainly mild steel ranging from 3mm to 6mm. Can flux core be ran in all positions like v down. I have some lorry welding to do shortly that will require the use of flux core as I have ran out of gas and can't afford a bottle. I have got to weld new out rigers on my 7.5 ton tipper body and a flux wire that can weld in all positions would be a god send.

 

[Munkul]

A very interesting post. I use flux core often. Sometimes get good results and other times it can be a complete nightmare. Most of my outside work is mainly mild steel ranging from 3mm to 6mm. Can flux core be ran in all positions like v down. I have some lorry welding to do shortly that will require the use of flux core as I have ran out of gas and can't afford a bottle. I have got to weld new out rigers on my 7.5 ton tipper body and a flux wire that can weld in all positions would be a god send.

NR211MP is rated for all position including vertical up and down, but you would normally weld vertical up where possible, to avoid slag entrapment.

 

[God mode restorations]

NR211MP is rated for all position including vertical up and down, but you would normally weld vertical up where possible, to avoid slag entrapment.

Is that the Lincoln inershield. I been reading good reviews about it.

 

[Munkul]

Is that the Lincoln inershield. I been reading good reviews about it.

Yeah it is.

I was super impressed with how easy it ran, but not so impressed with its impact properties.

My scientific testing was as follows:
I ran those welds, cut some sections and smashed f*** out of them with a hammer.

The weld failed first, and more easily than any tests I've done with solid wire.

 

[God mode restorations]

Yeah it is.

I was super impressed with how easy it ran, but not so impressed with its impact properties.

My scientific testing was as follows:
I ran those welds, cut some sections and smashed f*** out of them with a hammer.

The weld failed first, and more easily than any tests I've done with solid wire.

Interesting. So not very structural

 

[Munkul]

Interesting. So not very structural

It could have been my settings, but I ran it according to lincoln chart settings. Maybe old wire with moisture? Although I don't understand how moisture could permeate through a steel wire shell into the flux core.

I know a lot of this wire is ran for all sorts of jobs in the states, they all seem happy enough with it.

It specifically has a thickness limitation on it and no impact properties on the data sheet. Probably fine for anything that isn't going to get smacked around.

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