have open fire, want to fit log burner

[gaz1]

Modern stoves are very efficient appliances vastly different than old open fires.

Therefore the flue liner is required due to the cooler gases coming out which would otherwise cause issues within a large chimney. Including increased sooting up etc. Stainless liners are cheap and much safer don't skimp fit em!

wood stoves are more efficent compared to the open fire which send 85 percent of room heat up the chimney

whilst a wood stove makes no difference if its coal or wood still burns most of the heat up the chimney exactly the same as it would do when it was fitted as an open stove
you are still sending 1000f up the chimney as its direct from the stove to the chimney wether its a flue or brick type

 

[JOEPRO]

wood stoves are more efficent compared to the open fire which send 85 percent of room heat up the chimney

whilst a wood stove makes no difference if its coal or wood still burns most of the heat up the chimney exactly the same as it would do when it was fitted as an open stove
you are still sending 1000f up the chimney as its direct from the stove to the chimney wether its a flue or brick type

Not sure what your getting at here but flue liners are recommended for all stoves including wood burning and do increase efficiency.

A Complete Guide to Flue Liners For Your Stove

Want to know more about chimney liners? Read our complete guide to find out exactly what they are, their benefits and how much they cost. >>

www.directstoves.com

 

[the artfull-codger]

Yes, you can !

(Obviously follow every pedants advice about x,y,z, legislation, building control, local authorities blah, blah, blah, smoke control areas, fine particulate emmissions, double lined platinum chimney pipe, etc, etc, etc.)

Sweep chimney every 6 - 8 weeks if you use it every night, burn dry wood, not resinous crap.

Pipe it or flexible conduit, Chinese hat on the top, don't seal around it leave a condensation escape air passage.a lot from the actual chooimney but the stove ways are well cloged up

And sweep it regularly !!!

Spot on there B M we have a rayburn sfs & sweep the chimney every 6-8 weeks we don't get a lot from the actual chimney but the stove flues certainly get blocked, due to overnight banking up, we cook mostly on softwood & hardwoods & bank up with hardwood/anthracite mix it supplies central heating domestic hot water & 90% of our cooking, on the other hand our 2 stoves get cleaned in the back end & as the house is over 300 yrs old we have chimney liners in them all.

 

[fizzy]

In our old farmhouse we had a massive fireplace. The chimney was so big I used to climb up with a yard brush to sweep it. The woodburner just had a 4 foot length of flue pipe sticking straight up not attached to anything. Never had problems. There was a sliding metal plate to try to stop too much heat being lost up the chimney. Although I tried sweeping the chimney a few times I soon gave up - no real soot to come down.

The Rayburn chimney on the other hand was a nightmare. It was clay lined I think. It led into a square chamber at the side of the chimney with a cast iron door and a steel plate on the inside with rockwool between. I used to sweep it every 6 weeks. Loads and loads of soot burning coal or wood. Several chimney fires that were very scary. One of them got so hot the rockwool melted

 

[gaz1]

Not sure what your getting at here but flue liners are recommended for all stoves including wood burning and do increase efficiency.

A Complete Guide to Flue Liners For Your Stove

Want to know more about chimney liners? Read our complete guide to find out exactly what they are, their benefits and how much they cost. >>

www.directstoves.com

they provide some efficency but not in the terms of wood burning usage

if you want something better you dont fit a liner you fit a twin walled flue not a stainless steel liner

stainless steel liner only comes into it for the likes of gas and poor chimneys that could be leaking into rooms its more advisable to fit a liner to make sure this is the case and that no one can suffer from carbonoxide poisoning

 

[JOEPRO]

they provide some efficency but not in the terms of wood burning usage

if you want something better you dont fit a liner you fit a twin walled flue not a stainless steel liner

stainless steel liner only comes into it for the likes of gas and poor chimneys that could be leaking into rooms its more advisable to fit a liner to make sure this is the case and that no one can suffer from carbonoxide poisoning

Well my house is a typical example and no chance of ripping a chimney out and installing a double walled stainless flue

It had a clay 10 inch liner. Sound chimney.

Stove manufacturer called for a 5 inch stainless liner.

I fitted a 5 inch stainless liner. 12 years ago. Still perfect condition and easy to clean myself.

You also appear to be suggesting lining Leaking chimneys- that is very dangerous advice my friend. If in doubt at all get a qualified pro in to inspect the chimney, your chosen stove and make recommendations.

In any case do what you will this is my advice based on 20 years of being a chartered construction professional and also fitting 2x in my own home successfully.

 

[gaz1]

lol

i fit the liner
i widen chimney breasts and fit lintels
i build stoves
i fit stoves
i test stoves

and ive done it longer than you have i started early on boilers and stoves

none of these stoves conserve wood they still burn logs for fun watch and see these are both new stoves first one is secondary air whilst the second vid is a downdraft model whilst it does give x2 heat output from the same loadng the downdraft hits temps of 2000f

whist the rocket stove only uses thin materials to get it started and then you can load logs 1 log at a time every 3 hrs alot better than the wood stoves thats for sale

the rocket stove chimney output is only 300f on the exhaust whilst the exhaust on the normal stoves doesnt matter which tyoe it is, hits the normal range on a dial of 500f-700 for normal operating temperatures

 

[gaz1]

You also appear to be suggesting lining Leaking chimneys- that is very dangerous advice my friend. If in doubt at all get a qualified pro in to inspect the chimney, your chosen stove and make recommendations.

In any case do what you will this is my advice based on 20 years of being a chartered construction professional and also fitting 2x in my own home successfully.

seriously your advice is so wrong

you line the chimneys if you suspect the chimney of leaking when you test it with a smoke bomb

i check the chimneys for the smoke and also check each room and also up in the loft the main point of damage looking for any smoke coming out of the chimney stack

my propertys have been rented im also aware of the regs

ive stopped a fair few gas fitters and told them to leave the property for bad practices

ive also followed up with reporting them to the rightful place and also supplying video to them

this was all on video

the last place was so bad and this is council owned property i told the fitter to leave and take his gear with him and that he wouldnt be coming back
poor gas fire maintenance and poor boiler maintanence

you havent seen how much the management and housing soon came knocking they scrambled to get my house sorted

what would normally take 1/2 a day one person took all day with 5 fitters they changed the gas fire they extended the flue on the boiler and did a full retest on all of the sytem on the house

thats how poor the gas fitting was within there own regulations and i have all of that on internal and external video recordings

 

[stuvy]

 

[DennisCA]

When I visited Chile, I noticed everyone burning pine, they said that's all they have, and yes
they get creosote, so have to clean the flue regular like.

Everyone here burns pine but unless you burn wet wood and have a tremendously bad burner, anything more than a yearly sweep is pointless.

I once didn't sweep my chimney for 5 years (forgot, they did a systems reform and suddenly the county stopped sending them, we had to arrange it ourselves) and when the sweeper came he said there was barely any deposits worth talking about.

 

[DennisCA]

I know a few people who have had chimney fires, after advice from the fire service, once a year isn't enough, obviously depends what you're burning, we find even burning (fairly*) dry wood, a regular sweep helps the draw.

*What we're currently burning is 4 years old dry stored, but we shut the Rayburn right down at night, which probably causes bad combustion, but it's still going in the morning.

Obviously something is very wrong with your setups or burning techniques, whatever they are.

 

[JOEPRO]

Re timber burning best to allow it to season fully before burning. I leave mine for about 3 years before burning and by that stage its very dry and puts out great heat.

 

[JOEPRO]

seriously your advice is so wrong

you line the chimneys if you suspect the chimney of leaking when you test it with a smoke bomb

i check the chimneys for the smoke and also check each room and also up in the loft the main point of damage looking for any smoke coming out of the chimney stack

my propertys have been rented im also aware of the regs

ive stopped a fair few gas fitters and told them to leave the property for bad practices

ive also followed up with reporting them to the rightful place and also supplying video to them

this was all on video

the last place was so bad and this is council owned property i told the fitter to leave and take his gear with him and that he wouldnt be coming back
poor gas fire maintenance and poor boiler maintanence

you havent seen how much the management and housing soon came knocking they scrambled to get my house sorted

what would normally take 1/2 a day one person took all day with 5 fitters they changed the gas fire they extended the flue on the boiler and did a full retest on all of the sytem on the house

thats how poor the gas fitting was within there own regulations and i have all of that on internal and external video recordings

Gaz let's get back on topic, this is a solid fuel stove thread which is not governed by Gas Safe. If you want to dicuss that further best to start a new thread.

Just to take a step back here, here is the recommendation from my Stove installation manual


My existing flue diameter exceeded the max 200mm specification. Therefore I lined my flue.

The flue diameter depends on the output of the stove etc so this will vary and its important to check that when selecting a stove to suit your requirements. This way people can also plan a suitable budget for the whole installation.

Also to be considered is combustion air for a Stove. This needs to be checked with the stove manufacturer and local building regulations. For more modern homes a room sealed appliance would be the best choice which means the potentially cold outside air is drawn through a sealed duct instead of coming into your room.

For a boiler stove in recent years it also became law for them to come with automatic damper control, check that too when buying a suitable stove.

There is also a legislative issue regarding having an open plan space with an extractor fan and stove together. I have fought and won this at a legislative level before with Building Control but its best avoided where possible.

 

[JOEPRO]

I also have a large boiler multi fuel stove. This one did NOT require the flue to be lined as it met the spec. This was bought years ago and at the time I pad extra for the auto boiler damper which should now come with all boiler stoves as standard.

This one did also require a combustion air supply which was correctly sized and cored through a wall. (The correct sizing is to do with the louvre free area not the diameter necessarily check with Building Control if unsure)

 

[DennisCA]

Flue lining is something I would only do if there was a problem with the original brick chimney. Brick chimneys are legally required to be covered with render here on the inside, that makes them tight and prevents them from leaking.

If the chimney is so bad as to require a liner, usually the chimneys fitted with a liners where I live are over a century old.

I have a ceramic chimney by Schiedel myself. It does not leak and lasts as long as a brick chimney if not longer. The draft is incredible.

 

[8ob]

So much miss information written and vids posted up on the internet
Seal off the top of the chimney and poke a few smoke bombs in there to check the integrity of existing chimney, if the lofts not full of smoke I would just fit a register plate and install the stove. I have got through rather a lot of logwood in my stove and never had any issues.

Bob

 

[Kj1123]

Alot has already been covered here but as work part-time for a hetas installer I can maybe clear up a few things. 1 fitting a flexible flue linner is not required if: The manufacturer of your stove doesn't specify one is needed, if your original chimney is linned with a clay linner and is structurally sound and in working order. There are also other considerations such as the diameter of the flue, the height of the flue high will always increase the draw the diameter is a factor because stoves nowadays are very effective and a very large linner on a very small stove in a bungalow in my experience can be a factor but can still work. If you do decide to connect to your existing chimney fit a register plate and measure your chimney and fit an appropriate size chimney adapter it's like a funnel it will go from your 5 / 6 inch flue pipe and increase up to 7/8 inch clay linner u can also tape some fire rope on with foil tape to make a good seal this is very important u need a good seal for it to work well. There are really no downsides to fitting a flexible linner other than cost it improves; efficiency of stove, it can improve draw by reducing the diameter of flue think like squeezing the end of a garden hose, it will prevent damage to your clay linners incase of a chimney fire. I would recommend u go for a 6inch linner 150mm in Ireland this is the minimum size linner for soild fuel it written in building regs but every hardware in the country sell 5 inch linner to people to fit to stoves (typical in Ireland). Don't be afraid of the budget stoves made in China in my experience it to way the stove is used and maintained that determines there life span there not like cars or complex machines there just a metal/ cast iron box u light a fire in the Chinese ones are just as good if maintained ( most are made in China anyway Stanley included so don't be fooled). Alway fit a carbon monoxide detectors in room up high and if chimney passes through bedrooms ect fit another in there. Ventilation is important the stove is like a vacuum sucking air in so an air vent in the room is best practice. Adhere to distance to combustible materials each manufacturer will be different and u want about 9inches of heart infront of your stove to catch any hots sticks that may fall out. That's some food for thought installing a stove (correctly) requires many considerations and is not as straightforward as u 1st think buy with common sense and good planning can be done well remember if your house burns down and u haven't followed the rules your screwed. Hope that help goodluck

 

[JOEPRO]

Flue lining is something I would only do if there was a problem with the original brick chimney. Brick chimneys are legally required to be covered with render here on the inside, that makes them tight and prevents them from leaking.

If the chimney is so bad as to require a liner, usually the chimneys fitted with a liners where I live are over a century old.

I have a ceramic chimney by Schiedel myself. It does not leak and lasts as long as a brick chimney if not longer. The draft is incredible.

So do you mean that if you had say a 450 x 450mm brick built flue in good condition and the stove manufacturer recommendation is to have a max 200mm dia flue you would fit without a liner?

May I ask why, is it because you believe it makes no difference to the performance of the stove?

Or because of the cost to install a liner?

Or both?

Interesting to hear other people's opinions which are obviously divided on this matter.

Whilst a good larger flue could be used will a modern stove perform at best efficiency going into a larger flue with a larger cold mass?

 

[mark roberts]

This is one of my stoves which is lit every night without fail. Multifuel Stanley Oisin stove

View attachment 384338

Heat powered stove fan on top circulates the heat very well. Fantastic heat output ticks over on coal doubles and air control is very simple.

I was told by our coal man that 'normal' coal is outlawed now. All we can get is ovoids which dont look as nice as proper coal.

 

[Gritineye]

Fact, established by me so absolutely irrefutable.

A flue liner may make your stove burn better, but it does greatly reduce the amount of heat that is retained within the house, due to less heat being transferred to the surrounding masonry. This should be taken into consideration when deciding whether to fit one or not.