Heating oil increase this morning

[Kayos]

Not quite sure how to interpret this. Are you saying that, unless you can get an installation cheaper than market rates, then, no, they aren't competitive?

I'm saying they are, but in my case the installation cost is removed so the argument for is strengthened. With the addition of PV I wil effectively have free hot water in the summer. I'd also stick a battery in

However the decoupling of gas and electricity prices in the next 3 years means they will become even more attractive, the current high prices are an anomaly, I know that is cold comfort to those struggling with bills but I'm taking a long term view

 

[Misterg]

Just ordered a 1500 litre top up of Kero. Came in at just under £1200 from Boilerjuice (78.4P/Litre)

I guess £1191? (1500 x £0.784 +£15) = 79.4p/litre

Even with oil at 89p/litre, it was actually the cheapest source of heating for last month at 10.19p/kWh (4th column below).

(Who'd have thought it?)

79.4p/litre would reduce this to just over 9p/kWh.

Energy Cost Comparison – Nov 2022​

Fuel	Fuel price (p per unit)	Unit	Pence per kWh (after boiler efficiency)	Energy content (kWh per unit)	KgCO2e per kWh*
Electricity Standard Rate1	39.21	kWh	39.21 (100%)	1	0.231
Electricity Online Rate1	38.41	kWh	38.41 (100%)	1	0.231
Mains Gas Standard Rate2	11.52	kWh	12.81 (90%)	1	0.215
Mains Gas Online Rate2	11.06	kWh	12.29 (90%)	1	0.215
Kerosene3	89.67	Litre	10.19 (90%)	9.8	0.298
Gas oil4	115.49	Litre	12.71 (90%)	10.4	0.316
**LPG5	N/A	Litre	N/A (90%)	6.66	0.240
Butane6	191.20	Litre	29.34 (90%)	7.97	0.247
Propane7	135.57	Litre	22.69 (90%)	7.07	0.239
Seasoned Wood (Logs)8	37.02	Kg	10.37 (85%)	4.20	0.028
Pellets (Bagged)9	70.73	Kg	16.37 (90%)	4.80	0.053
Pellets (Blown Bulk)10	61.30	Kg	14.19 (85%)	4.80	0.053
Smokeless fuel11	67.22	Kg	13.38 (75%)	8.51	0.398
Coal12	76.40	Kg	12.81 (75%)	6.20	0.398
GSHP13	39.21	kWh	11.20 (350%)	1	0.083
ASHP14	38.41	kWh	14.23 (270%)	1	0.108

From here

 

[Mikes]

Thats the drum I would beat, energy costs will never return to where they were. Ticks the most boxes on climate change and plugs the wallet drain.

Bob

I've actually noticed 3 old, single brick wall houses in the vicinity that are having external insulation applied. The small terraced ones look a bit odd at present as their new wall sits proud of the adjacent ones. One large house that is rendered is looking very good. Can only really tell its been done by the increased depth of the window reveals. They've been on it quite a while as it has bay windows so not just a flat face. Would like to know how much its cost.

 

[Stueeee]

I guess £1191? (1500 x £0.784 +£15) = 79.4p/litre

Even with oil at 89p/litre, it was actually the cheapest source of heating for last month at 10.19p/kWh (4th column below).

(Who'd have thought it?)

79.4p/litre would reduce this to just over 9p/kWh.

Energy Cost Comparison – Nov 2022​

Fuel	Fuel price (p per unit)	Unit	Pence per kWh (after boiler efficiency)	Energy content (kWh per unit)	KgCO2e per kWh*
Electricity Standard Rate1	39.21	kWh	39.21 (100%)	1	0.231
Electricity Online Rate1	38.41	kWh	38.41 (100%)	1	0.231
Mains Gas Standard Rate2	11.52	kWh	12.81 (90%)	1	0.215
Mains Gas Online Rate2	11.06	kWh	12.29 (90%)	1	0.215
Kerosene3	89.67	Litre	10.19 (90%)	9.8	0.298
Gas oil4	115.49	Litre	12.71 (90%)	10.4	0.316
**LPG5	N/A	Litre	N/A (90%)	6.66	0.240
Butane6	191.20	Litre	29.34 (90%)	7.97	0.247
Propane7	135.57	Litre	22.69 (90%)	7.07	0.239
Seasoned Wood (Logs)8	37.02	Kg	10.37 (85%)	4.20	0.028
Pellets (Bagged)9	70.73	Kg	16.37 (90%)	4.80	0.053
Pellets (Blown Bulk)10	61.30	Kg	14.19 (85%)	4.80	0.053
Smokeless fuel11	67.22	Kg	13.38 (75%)	8.51	0.398
Coal12	76.40	Kg	12.81 (75%)	6.20	0.398
GSHP13	39.21	kWh	11.20 (350%)	1	0.083
ASHP14	38.41	kWh	14.23 (270%)	1	0.108

From here

Interesting table, thanks for posting. Would never have thought that Oil would work out cheaper than gas, not that it's relevant at my place as mains gas stops at the border of the local village.

I paid £1176 and some pennies in total for the 1500L, so the 78.4P is the inclusive price; next best supplier was/is 79.3P + VAT. Not sure how they get any business with such a price gap for a commodity product.

 

[addjunkie]

As demand for oil drops due to the green drive, suspect prices will settle and for those of us who are in @8ob s over 50s club will remain that way most of our lives.

Insulation and solar are a no brainer on any house with the right solar facing roofs.

A well insulated house is relatively cheap to heat in any fuel, a poorley insulated one will always be expensive.

If buying a house today with oil, Id live with it, wont belong before theres lots of government money thrown out there to help persuade you to change.

 

[DAPPH]

One thing that's often missed is are the outer walls sealed against rain ingress through them?

Even the older blown fibre cavity filled walls can let moisture in through the walls.
My 39-year-old terylene texture splattered bungalow was thought to be sound enough to stop this happening. When I opened the cavity to key in a new internal; wall I found the inner & outer skins really quite damp on the cavity faces.

This led me to having the outsides power washed, off with a hypochlorite bleach-based wash, left to dry for three days, then sprayed with Finnigan's sealer some 17 years ago.

A week later the bungalow was given two coats of proper water-resistant external wall paint that has a 20 yr. guarantee.
It took two years for most of the moisture to evaporate out the walls and floor slab. At the two-year point I had to do a fair bit of repairing where the coving and ceiling boards had shrunk & lifted at their joints & taped joints.

This year's really hot & dry summer has also caused some of the coving to come off the wall & ceiling joins in places as well as a few middle of the bungalow ceiling board joint to crack despite being well taped & plastered when I did the repairs 17 yrs. ago.

Likely to be the blue coalmine clay soil drying than getting rehydrated when the rains eventually arrived & th bungalow trying to slide down the1500 mtr long hill we live on.

 

[Morrisman]

I've actually noticed 3 old, single brick wall houses in the vicinity that are having external insulation applied. The small terraced ones look a bit odd at present as their new wall sits proud of the adjacent ones. One large house that is rendered is looking very good. Can only really tell its been done by the increased depth of the window reveals. They've been on it quite a while as it has bay windows so not just a flat face. Would like to know how much its cost.

They did the external insulation trick to the upstairs walls of a bunch of council houses in my local town recently. Some had been sold off, private owners, so they didn't get done.

I have to admit, it looked pretty rubbish when one half of a semi detached unit was insulated externally, and the other wasn't.

The council house, on the left, got insulation and a new roof. To the right is private, but the downstairs was already painted white for some reason.

 

[Robotstar5]

They did the external insulation trick to a bunch of council houses in my local town recently. Some had been sold off, private owners, so they didn't get done.

I have to admit, it looked pretty rubbish when one half of a semi detached unit was insulated externally, and the other wasn't.

Like when it was in vogue to to have stone cladding, you would see a row of terraced houses with one clad house in the middle, looked silly.

 

[DAPPH]

The 120 yr old 9-inch solid brick walled four bed roomed house had a fully modernization about 8 yrs. ago they took the floors out put in a thermal floor with internal heating from a GSHP.
A new roof & the external insulation, put on a smooth external weatherproof coat afterwards & spraying it brilliant white.

It looks really good only problem is they did a rubbish job putting on the ridge tiles.
A few weeks after the place was occupied several ridge tiles got blown of the apex and sat int the gully above the front door & side access gate.


Good job I spotted them one morning after the night of storms & told the occupants of the danger, as well as the likelihood of roof tiles being ripped off in another decent blow. When their builder got on the roof that afternoon some of the freed off ridge tiles started sliding down the gulley.

 

[Gareth J]

I'm saying they are, but in my case the installation cost is removed so the argument for is strengthened. With the addition of PV I wil effectively have free hot water in the summer. I'd also stick a battery in

However the decoupling of gas and electricity prices in the next 3 years means they will become even more attractive, the current high prices are an anomaly, I know that is cold comfort to those struggling with bills but I'm taking a long term view

Hope you're right regarding decoupling of gas/electric.

Have you done any calculations lately? I think you might be wrong. Back of the envelope. Ignoring any installation costs, with a COP of 3, a heat pump, running on 35p/kWh electric will give you ~12p per kWh, right? A condensing oil boiler, running on £1 a litre oil, at 90% efficiency, will give you ~11p per kWh.

Now, no one here is currently buying £1 a litre oil. And electric prices are set to increase further.

I'm a fan of heat pumps by the way, but currently, the more sound investment, with an actual return on investment, is insulation IMO.

 

[nickk]

The big problem I hear with GSHP,is electric costs to pump and the need to insulate big time,of course it makes sense to insulate,but retrofitting whilst living there at capacity and losing space is a serious consideration,our house is stone to first floor,the masons work of high quality,with a known lifespan of many many decades before it needs repointing,I doubt an external rendered wall would give 50-100 years of unmaintained service life.
You save in one area,then lose in another.

 

[armalites]

Interesting table, thanks for posting. Would never have thought that Oil would work out cheaper than gas, not that it's relevant at my place as mains gas stops at the border of the local village.

I paid £1176 and some pennies in total for the 1500L, so the 78.4P is the inclusive price; next best supplier was/is 79.3P + VAT. Not sure how they get any business with such a price gap for a commodity product.

Personally I think people have always assumed that gas was cheaper, sure there is no doubt there is less effort involved with gas although that effort is simply a case of monitoring your tank and monitoring prices and probably the boilers are more efficient but with gas you have absolutely no way of taking benefit of market fluctuations. My last top was I think 87p/L the one before that was 55p/L and the one before that was 19p/L and that time I was able to brim and almost empty 2500L tank which meant I had a year where heating a decent sized old house cost me about £240. Even before all this drama kicked off I regularly spoke to people on gas who thought £100 a month was normal, when I paid 19p/L my heating for 18mths averaged £20/month.

I am absolutely certain in the 20 years I've lived in my house as a total cost oil has been cheaper than gas but I have a big tank and I buy when the prices are low.

People always think prices will be low when demand is low but the lowest prices I have ever paid have been in the winter, about 5-6 years a go it was 25p/L in February.

I've lost count of the amount of people who have said "Shame you can't get gas", we can get gas but I cannot see any benefit in changing.

 

[reb78]

Its another penny per litre cheaper here today. Its now 3ppl cheaper than my 2300l top up for winter in september. I have about 1200l space but dont think i will buy more yet as i hope it will come down a lot more as spring approaches and someone hopefully assassinates Putin....

 

[dobbslc]

75.9p a liter here now, that's dropped about 10p in the last 2 weeks!

 

[prepman]

Personally I think people have always assumed that gas was cheaper, sure there is no doubt there is less effort involved with gas although that effort is simply a case of monitoring your tank and monitoring prices and probably the boilers are more efficient but with gas you have absolutely no way of taking benefit of market fluctuations. My last top was I think 87p/L the one before that was 55p/L and the one before that was 19p/L and that time I was able to brim and almost empty 2500L tank which meant I had a year where heating a decent sized old house cost me about £240. Even before all this drama kicked off I regularly spoke to people on gas who thought £100 a month was normal, when I paid 19p/L my heating for 18mths averaged £20/month.

I am absolutely certain in the 20 years I've lived in my house as a total cost oil has been cheaper than gas but I have a big tank and I buy when the prices are low.

People always think prices will be low when demand is low but the lowest prices I have ever paid have been in the winter, about 5-6 years a go it was 25p/L in February.

I've lost count of the amount of people who have said "Shame you can't get gas", we can get gas but I cannot see any benefit in changing.

Same here 2500ltr and prices too.

 

[reb78]

75.9p a liter here now, that's dropped about 10p in the last 2 weeks!

I cant really fathom whats going on. I think that a lot of people have held back on buying and are using up the dregs, so demand is nowhere near like it normally is at this time of year and prices have dropped as a result. I think there is always a post Christmas/NY lull where people filled up so they didnt run out at Christmas and so dont need any now either. So maybe a combination of those two things?

 

[prepman]

I cant really fathom whats going on. I think that a lot of people have held back on buying and are using up the dregs, so demand is nowhere near like it normally is at this time of year and prices have dropped as a result. I think there is always a post Christmas/NY lull where people filled up so they didnt run out at Christmas and so dont need any now either. So maybe a combination of those two things?

Think you're right there. I put a minimum of 500 to top the 1,000 to give the magical figure of 1,500 enough til July. I would've put 2,000 in if it was at a lower price ......say 20p/ltr? Dream on, eh?

 

[fizzy]

75.9p a liter here now, that's dropped about 10p in the last 2 weeks!

85p here and we have refineries almost on our doorstep

 

[prepman]

85p here and we have refineries almost on our doorstep

Home Fuels Direct seem better?

 

[indy4x]

I've actually noticed 3 old, single brick wall houses in the vicinity that are having external insulation applied. The small terraced ones look a bit odd at present as their new wall sits proud of the adjacent ones. One large house that is rendered is looking very good. Can only really tell its been done by the increased depth of the window reveals. They've been on it quite a while as it has bay windows so not just a flat face. Would like to know how much its cost.

One of the guys in work has recently had this done

3 bed semi, 15k