Hi everyone, would you be so kind to give a begginers advice?

[TiagoFigueiredo]

From what i have read it just some some feature to weld thin materials and alloys and prevent burning through them....


my favorite so far is the STAHLWERK MIG MAG 175 ST IGBT.....


Just trying to understand if it would be ok welding maritime grade 304 or 316 stainless steel...

 

[KemppiFrog]

You can weld stainless with MMA using the correct rods. 316 is marine. Most marine work is welded by TIG, but I find MIG is good, but you should use the correct gas mixture. A lot of what I do is domestic, like terrace railings, so my 8% CO2/Argon works OK.

One thing, my 150 amp Mig was up to 4mm steel with edges prepared. The same ampage with MMA will weld a lot thicker. I presume you have looked at the 'How To' sections at the top of the page?
KF

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Hey KemppiFrog thanks for keeping up with my post here, i havent but i will, i found the forum a week ago i believe.


A lot of theory to learn yet, and as for the 175amp machine doesnt seem to do fluxcore, so im pretty inclined to this 200amp one :

STAHLWERK MIG MAG 200 ST IGBT welder synergic suitable with MMA flux c, 349,99 €

STAHLWERK welder MIG MAG 200 ST IGBT / gas-shielded welder with synergic wire feed and real 200 amps / professional welder, E-hand, MMA

www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraete.de

opinions are welcomed !

there is also a new version (or pulse version) i supose it is for thinner more delicate metals but not sure, if anyone is sure let me know the difference, maybe its a better option, here it is


STAHLWERK MIG MAG 200 Double Pulse PRO

STAHLWERK welding machine MIG MAG 200 Pulse Pro shielding gas full syn, 549,99 €

STAHLWERK MIG MAG 200 Pulse Pro IGBT Shielded Metal Arc Welder Full synergic 5 in 1 combination unit with real 200 amp and 4 roll drive / flux cored wire, M

www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraete.de

thanks

 

[KemppiFrog]

Think you will find the 175 does do flux core. But I like the 200 unit. 4 roller wire and pulse for aluminium. Plus the extra ampage, as you need more amps for ally compared with steel for the same thickness. Quite a difference in price, but still reasonable.

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Sure, i now saw the 175 does flux core too. So, i guess i got 3 options here.


Which one of the two 200 units i linked are you refering to ?

 

[chip]

With your 400 euro budget I'd probably scrape another 100 together for this its 250 amp 7 year warranty and appears to be free shipping as your EU

https://ipotools.eu/product/ipotools-mig-250s-synergic-inverter-welder/

 

[henry Kadzielski]

My two cents worth. I have been reading this post, and listening to @TiagoFigueiredo trying to justify which and or what machine to get. A machine that will do it all, a machine that will also boil the kettle and scratch one's a hole. I have done this in the past using my logic to determine what would be suitable, based on no practical knowledge. This doesn't work I respect you are trying to learn, but what you are asking is impossible. Your request to weld cast iron and copper with a mig has shown your lack of knowledge and understanding. There I have said it.
What is the main duties / welding that you would be doing? Steel would be definitely one, some S/S and alloy. If you have no practical experience welding with a mig, buying a cheap machine and trying to weld S/S and particularly Alloy with the budget you stated is impossible. There have been responses already regarding the requirements of different gasses to suite the different welding wires to name a few. Welding S/S and alloy well with little or no experience as opposed to just sticking it together is near impossible again with that budget. I have Fronius machines, the latest TPSi's and at times still find it difficult to get the desired results and have been doing this for some time now.
My suggestion, and it is totally up to you, fine someone that welds for a living and has been doing it for some time, take a look at what he / she has been doing and the quality of his / her work, the pride that they exhibit in it and talk to them. They may show you what you need to be doing and what it is supposed to look like, this is the first hurdle. Br prepared that it may cost something, knowledge doesn't come for free. Starting with steel, which is the easiest start practising. For that a cheap invertor mig will do. For S/S and alloy a pulse machine would be best. Don't get a head of your self, start small and build up. Once you have started you will start to appreciate the enormaty of your request

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Hey chip thanks for sharing that, that seems a great option too.

250amp should enlarge any welding options, i believe i my case as a begginer i will make most of my welds around 90-110amps but only time will tell, and more amperage is always welcomed.

Thanks also henry, for sharing your brutal honest toughts, i apreciatte that, im tryin to be reasonable and start small, after all opinions since my first post, i have forgot about the idea of a multi machine.... the main focus is iron and SS (maritime) and maybe aluminium, if possible.


I have saved the idea of a plasma cutter and a tig machine for when i have more experience, but since you said for S/S a pulse machine is better, you a refering to a mig pulse machine right ?

 

[henry Kadzielski]

since you said for S/S a pulse machine is better, you a refering to a mig pulse machine right

Yes, but also for alloy. The pulse machine will let you weld thin alloy with a thicker filler wire (say 1.2mm). The thicker the wire the less problems with feedability. Double pulse will again help with out of position welding. S/S can be a fiddly thing to weld and generate much frustration, to get the profile right and for it not to look burnt. I have just got my machine 'Francesca' to do S/S well in vertical up or down, overhead and also to fill gaps. I am very happy now
Now with the right machine you can do alloy without a push pull gun, however a push pull gun is a great advantage

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Hey that seems truly very difficult, overhead welding seems extremely difficult, a friend of mine who's in the navy also said many people weld underwater too, which seems very hard too, tough saltwater is said to be a good conductor.


Yeah alloy and thin metals is cool, i dont wanna start makin holes and getting frustrated, and
S-S will for sure not be my primary thing to weld when i start but i love stainless steel, so its what i want to learn with time..


One of the machines i shared, (one of the most expensive) had double pulse, not sure if you saw it, here it is, do you think it would be a better option for S-S ?

STAHLWERK welding machine MIG MAG 200 Pulse Pro shielding gas full syn, 549,99 €

STAHLWERK MIG MAG 200 Pulse Pro IGBT Shielded Metal Arc Welder Full synergic 5 in 1 combination unit with real 200 amp and 4 roll drive / flux cored wire, M

www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraete.de

Thanks

 

[henry Kadzielski]

had double pulse, not sure if you saw it, here it is, do you think it would be a better option for S-S ?

All I can say to this is don't know. You will have to try, but with lack of experience you don't know what to expect or how to change the setting to get it to do what you want. I have said this before 'a good welder with an average machine will get a good result, however a poor welder even with a top line machine will get a poor result'. If you are buying the machine from new, then get the demo to show you that it will do what you want. No demo no sale!. I have pulse machines for many years and I can't get them to weld S/S, however the new pulse machines, no problems. You must remember that not all machines are the same and will do what you want / need. The top five or six manufactures (Fronius, EWM, Lorch, Kempii, Lincolin, Miller) will definitely do what you need, however the budget for those is way above what you have. The top machines have had much more time spent on them by their engineers to get their setting closer to right, thus making it easier to get the job done. I have bought the machines that I have as I am not a good welder, but still need to get my jobs done. It is a very different story if your income comes from the work that you do. No work or poor looking work no further call backs and you starve.

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Gotcha, just like in fishing the gear doest get the fish, the fisherman does.


And hey i totally understand where youre coming from, tough its not in my intent for now to do welding on a professional level, its a very demanding and hard job and i respect who does this type of work.


I would look into live welding a bit more, but i really dont have any around at this stage, and to start welding, even slowly, i do need a machine to do so.......... im gonna look into these 3 or 4 machines for demos and try to get a better understanding....

 

[TiagoFigueiredo]

Hey everyone, just a quick note, before i get to the conclusions of the welder itself and the reviews i saw, a doubt just came up in my mind, trying to understand if i could it readlly use it at home.


My place has a 3.4 kw power /amp socket, so it kept me wondering, and after reading some stuff here on the forum, and even if i need to run it at half power (90-100amps) here's what i found on how much it would drawn at 100amps

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jun 2, 2012
Hi
I would say 1.5 to 2.5 kw with stop start my electric cost 14pp kw, but you should have have change out of a £1 per hour.

I'd guess a 200A inverter would draw around 20A from the supply at full whack, so that's 4.6kW. For comparison, a kettle draws about 2kW

At full whack a 200 Amp inverter will pull about 18 - 19 Amps.
At half power that will be 9 - 9.5 Amps. 230v x 9.5 = 2185w, or 2.185kw.
But at 30% of an hour that is 18 minutes.

I don’t know if this is a Stick , Mig or Tig welder though, so I’ll take a stab at it with a cheap stick welder.

A cheap 20–200A stick welder from Lowe’s requires 50A, 230–240V input power to output 24–28V at 20–200A.
50A x 240V = 12,000 Watts or 12 kW so a 3kW generator wouldn’t be close to enough for a cheap stick welder.

However if we calculate the max power used 28V X 200A we get 5,600 Watts. So if we have to supply 12,000 Watts to get 5,600 W out we can figure our Duty Cycle.
5,600 / 12,000 = 46% which the label shows as 45.3% so we’re pretty close.

What does all of this mean? It means your 3kW Gen can only supply approx. 1/4 of the Max power needed for the welder.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also, one of the reviewers recomended me to get a welder with PFC, but i have read mixed reviews about it, so im not sure.... another reviewer wrote this :

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not think PFC is useful in a residential setting. I don't think it's useful in an industrial setting either unless you have a whole bank of welders going at once. I can't see how your meter would read "apparent" power. It reads what power is used, period. Having said that I don't think it would hurt to have PFC in a residential place because most people only run the welder as needed for a project so the extra current used at idle would be minimal.

Many people run a Syncro 250 on a 50 amp breaker without issues. Not ideal but it is done especially in residential use.

If I had a choice between two equally priced machines one with PFC & one without I would choose the one without.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






As most of you have probably heard all of this before, im sorry for the long repetitive post, any opinions are welcomed, happy sunday

 

[michaelbosman]

At 250 Euros, your price for the HBM1200 seems high. That model only costs 115 - 130 Euros here:

Pardon our interruption...

Pardon our interruption...

Regarding "multi inverter", most inverter MIGs at this level also offer MMA ( Arc ) functionality, and in theory you can use a DC Arc welder as a power source for Lift TIG.
This machine has a non-attached but also non-Euro MIG torch, which feeds the wire through a hollow Dinse socket. It has no controls for gas, so is only usable for fluxcore. Overall, it is about as far away from the high-end machines that you originally mentioned as you could get.....

Its pretty good for welding

 

[KemppiFrog]

Hey everyone, just a quick note, before i get to the conclusions of the welder itself and the reviews i saw, a doubt just came up in my mind, trying to understand if i could it readlly use it at home.


My place has a 3.4 kw power /amp socket, so it kept me wondering, and after reading some stuff here on the forum, and even if i need to run it at half power (90-100amps) here's what i found on how much it would drawn at 100amps

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jun 2, 2012
Hi
I would say 1.5 to 2.5 kw with stop start my electric cost 14pp kw, but you should have have change out of a £1 per hour.

I'd guess a 200A inverter would draw around 20A from the supply at full whack, so that's 4.6kW. For comparison, a kettle draws about 2kW

At full whack a 200 Amp inverter will pull about 18 - 19 Amps.
At half power that will be 9 - 9.5 Amps. 230v x 9.5 = 2185w, or 2.185kw.
But at 30% of an hour that is 18 minutes.

I don’t know if this is a Stick , Mig or Tig welder though, so I’ll take a stab at it with a cheap stick welder.

A cheap 20–200A stick welder from Lowe’s requires 50A, 230–240V input power to output 24–28V at 20–200A.
50A x 240V = 12,000 Watts or 12 kW so a 3kW generator wouldn’t be close to enough for a cheap stick welder.

However if we calculate the max power used 28V X 200A we get 5,600 Watts. So if we have to supply 12,000 Watts to get 5,600 W out we can figure our Duty Cycle.
5,600 / 12,000 = 46% which the label shows as 45.3% so we’re pretty close.

What does all of this mean? It means your 3kW Gen can only supply approx. 1/4 of the Max power needed for the welder.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Also, one of the reviewers recomended me to get a welder with PFC, but i have read mixed reviews about it, so im not sure.... another reviewer wrote this :

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not think PFC is useful in a residential setting. I don't think it's useful in an industrial setting either unless you have a whole bank of welders going at once. I can't see how your meter would read "apparent" power. It reads what power is used, period. Having said that I don't think it would hurt to have PFC in a residential place because most people only run the welder as needed for a project so the extra current used at idle would be minimal.

Many people run a Syncro 250 on a 50 amp breaker without issues. Not ideal but it is done especially in residential use.

If I had a choice between two equally priced machines one with PFC & one without I would choose the one without.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






As most of you have probably heard all of this before, im sorry for the long repetitive post, any opinions are welcomed, happy sunday

Your standard sockets are 16 amps, so you can run a welder for most work, but maybe not to max amps... UK has 13 amp sockets and peeps run welders for a lot of average jobs on them.
I run my 281 off a 20 amp breaker and no prpbs so far. But I have not used it's top end power.

 

[michaelbosman]

For beginner Hitbox Welder is suitable

 

[aesmith]

For beginner Hitbox Welder is suitable

I wouldn't call that a "review" in any meaningful way. It doesn't seem like they even used the machine, but just read the specification.